Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
08BEIJING2172
2008-06-05 07:10:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Beijing
Cable title:  

U.S.-China Human Rights Dialogue: May 27 meeting with PRC

Tags:  PHUM PREL KOLY CH 
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VZCZCXRO1710
OO RUEHCN RUEHGH RUEHVC
DE RUEHBJ #2172/01 1570710
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
O 050710Z JUN 08
FM AMEMBASSY BEIJING
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 7736
INFO RUEHOO/CHINA POSTS COLLECTIVE
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHDC
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 BEIJING 002172 

SIPDIS

E.O. 12598: DECL: 06/05/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL KOLY CH
SUBJECT: U.S.-China Human Rights Dialogue: May 27 meeting with PRC
State Council Information Office

Classified by Political Minister Counselor Aubrey Carlson. Reasons
1.4 (b) and (d).

SUMMARY
-------

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 BEIJING 002172

SIPDIS

E.O. 12598: DECL: 06/05/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL KOLY CH
SUBJECT: U.S.-China Human Rights Dialogue: May 27 meeting with PRC
State Council Information Office

Classified by Political Minister Counselor Aubrey Carlson. Reasons
1.4 (b) and (d).

SUMMARY
--------------


1. (C) Visiting DRL Assistant Secretary David Kramer pushed for
greater press freedom and a reduction of restrictions on the Internet
in a May 27 meeting with State Council Information Office Internet
Department Deputy Director General (DDG) Liu Zhengrong. A/S Kramer
told DDG Liu that China should make permanent the Olympics-specific
relaxed regulations for foreign press, which are currently due to
expire in October, and lift restrictions on the domestic press. DDG
Liu said that Chinese restrictions on the press and Internet are the
minimum necessary considering China's "special circumstances" and
that all such restrictions are in accordance with Chinese law. He
asserted that there is "sufficient freedom of speech in China." End
Summary.

FREEDOM, PLUS RESPONSIBILITY, OF THE PRESS
--------------


2. (C) State Council Information Office Internet Bureau Deputy
Director General Liu Zhengrong met with Assistant Secretary of State
for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor David Kramer May 27. A/S
Kramer noted that he found useful and interesting the May 26 Human
Rights Dialogue (HRD) discussion on information and Internet/media
freedom. This is a good area in which to exchange views to try to
narrow differences between the United States and China, he said.


3. (C) A/S Kramer challenged DDG Liu's use of the term
"responsibility of the press." Media responsibility lies with the
journalists, not with the state. Likewise, "objectivity" is an ideal
that journalists should seek for themselves. The general approach of
the United States is to stay out of the media's affairs. The media,
in our system, functions as a check and a balance on government.
Experience has shown the USG that this is the right approach. To do
their jobs, journalists need to not feel as though they are putting
their lives at risk for reporting the news. Likewise, analysts and
commentators need to not feel that they are putting their lives at
risk for offering their opinions. It is also important for those who
talk to journalists to feel safe. Without sources, journalists

cannot do their jobs. A/S Kramer urged that the relaxed regulations
for the foreign press promulgated in January 2007 to meet China's
Olympic bid commitment to allow freedom of the press be applied to
both domestic and foreign journalists and be made permanent.

PRC OFFICIAL: FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IMPROVING IN CHINA
-------------- --------------


4. (C) DDG Liu challenged those "outside China" who claim that there
is "not much" free speech in China. This is not a comprehensive
view, DDG Liu said. Freedom of speech "has always been protected by
law in China," he claimed. In the past, Liu admitted, the average
Chinese person did not have the chance to express his views on public
affairs. Now the situation has changed, and Chinese people have many
more channels to express their views. This freedom of speech is
unprecedented in China, and it is sufficient, he declared.


5. (C) DDG Liu recited statistics to demonstrate the scope of freedom
of speech in China. There are at least 700,000 websites "for Chinese
people to discuss a wide range of issues," he said. Respect for
popular opinion and the protection of the right of people to express
their views have become "important guiding principles" for the
Chinese Communist Party and the Government. The 17th Communist Party
Congress Political Report contains language concerning the protection
of the people's right to express their views, as well as the
responsibility of the people expressing those views. Foreign
observers should look at Chinese freedom of expression "from a
historical perspective and in a comprehensive way." Now, people in
China enjoy "unprecedented freedom of expression, and people are
satisfied with it."


6. (C) The issue of freedom of expression is closely linked to the
free flow of information, DDG Liu continued. Some foreign media
claim that China imposes restrictions on the free flow of
information, a "non-objective" point of view. China has taken
measures to promote the free flow of information and in recent years
has emphasized efforts to satisfy the people's demand for
information. The Government has promulgated regulations regarding
the transparency of information on government work and has passed a
law concerning emergency events. This gives Chinese people "more,
quicker" access to information. In addition, the Chinese Government
has taken steps to establish a system of spokesmen at all levels of
government. The SCIO holds training courses for these spokesmen.
DDG Liu said that it has become a fundamental principle to provide
timely access to information for Chinese people. However, he
claimed, China is not satisfied with the status quo. "Some people
have not established this concept in their minds," he said, "and so
we are making more efforts to help people, including some officials,

BEIJING 00002172 002 OF 004


change their minds about providing fast access to information."

ROLE OF THE GOVERNMENT IN REGULATING MEDIA
--------------


7. (C) DDG Liu said that he gives lectures at SCIO training courses
for government spokesmen, and in those lectures he cautions them
against covering up information. "If you give out information
quickly, it is the most efficient way to resolve any crisis," he
said. Media responsibility, however, is also important, and this is
an area where the world can learn from the United States. Modern
media theory originated in the United States, DDG Liu said, as did
the study of public opinion. DDG Liu quoted an American media
textbook claiming that the "effects of communication must serve the
public interest." With this in mind, he said, the Chinese position
is that media freedom cannot be unrestricted. All parties,
government, journalists and media, must take responsibility. The
media's basic responsibility is to ensure that the people learn what
has happened. The Government's responsibility is sometimes
misunderstood, but is primarily to regulate the media. The editorial
boards of media outlets must make the decisions about what to report
and what not to report. The United States has its own approach to
this issue, DDG Liu said, but even the USG exerts controls over the
media. In fact, the Chinese Government is impressed by the USG's
"skillful approach" to influencing reporting and controlling the
media.


8. (C) A/S Kramer interjected that there is a very large difference
between attempting to influence coverage of an issue by providing
information and attempting to control coverage by regulation or
legislation. USG agencies place information in the hands of
journalists, but it is ultimately up to those journalists how that
information is reported. The USG does not tell U.S. media outlets
what they can or cannot put on screen or in newspapers. Similarly,
access to information in China is more restricted than it is in the
United States. Certain Internet searches conducted with normal
results in the United States will turn up different or nonexistent
results in China. For example, searching for the term "Dalai Lama"
would not provide nearly as many results in China as it does in the
United States.

INTERNET FREEDOM
--------------


9. (C) All kinds of information are available on the Internet in
China, DDG Liu averred. In addition to providing information, the
Government takes measures to control illegal information or
information "unwelcomed by the public." DDG Liu agreed that control
and regulation of the media are different in China, and that in China
the Government regulates media organizations, but he argued that it
remains up to the editorial boards what to print. The volume of
information makes censorship or direct government involvement in
Internet content impossible. "The four main Chinese commercial
websites publish 70,000 news pieces a day. We could not exercise
censorship over that, and so we do not try."


10. (C) DDG Liu acknowledged that the same Google search in the
United States and China will yield different results in "a very few
cases." For example, searches involving Taiwan, the Dalai Lama,
Tibet or Falungong will yield different results in China than in the
United States. For the average web user, these differences will not
be important, he said. The actual influence on the search results is
a result of keyword filters set up by Chinese Internet providers to
block "illegal information." Regulation of the content of
information returned in Internet searches covers four main
categories: inciting separatism; supporting or inciting the "cult of
Falungong"; involving pornography, gambling or fraud; and violating
"traditional Chinese morals (daode)," for example, advocating a bad
lifestyle or undermining solidarity and unity among Chinese ethnic
groups.


11. (C) China has "special considerations" when it comes to
regulating the Internet, DDG Liu said. China must concern itself
with protecting its territorial integrity. The Falungong issue in
China is just as sensitive to China as terrorism is to the United
States, DDG Liu stated. Liu complained that "over 2,000" Chinese
language gambling websites aimed at Chinese customers are located
offshore. "What would the United States do if some Chinese person
set up a group of websites targeting Americans with online gambling
and pornography," DDG Liu asked rhetorically. China must restrict
this kind of website in accordance with Chinese law. The Chinese
people will severely criticize the Government if it fails to do so,
he said.


12. (C) Chinese citizens have logged over 800,000 reports and
complaints about websites at the "illegal Internet information
reporting center" since 2004, DDG Liu said. This illustrates the
concern of the Chinese people, he argued, and as a result the Chinese
Government "has no choice but to control this illegal information."
Different countries face different problems and handle them in

BEIJING 00002172 003 OF 004


different ways, he continued. The fact that the United States
pursues a private sector-focused solution to the problems of Internet
abuse does not necessarily mean that this is the best way for China
to handle the problem. China believes that the Government should
avoid unnecessary legislation but should also play a role in the
protection of the national interest. This is also the core of the
U.S. Government's Internet policy, he asserted. The USG promoted the
development of the Internet industry and the regulation of that
industry, DDG Liu said.


13. (C) A/S Kramer interjected that child pornography is the only
area where the U.S. Government intervenes in the Internet industry,
except for certain states where Internet gambling is illegal. The
United States does not control and does not regulate the Internet.
In addition, the U.S. Government does not block websites it finds in
contravention of U.S. law. Instead, it prosecutes those who have
broken the law. EAP DAS Tom Christensen noted that even websites
supporting Osama bin Laden are not blocked in the United States. A/S
Kramer observed that the United States and China start from
fundamentally different positions on the role of the state and the
responsibility of the individual. In the U.S. experience, less
government involvement is better.


14. (C) DDG Liu responded that dealing with online media is not as
simple as it seems. Even in the West, he noted, different countries
have different laws. The United States may not block Internet sites,
but in the UK, child pornography sites are blocked, and on a weekly
basis the government agencies concerned send keywords to major
Internet sites so that they can be filtered. Looking at this
situation, China feels as though it is unfairly singled out for its
Internet policy.


15. (C) In fact, DDG Liu claimed, China's Internet policy is
"consistent with international practice." DDG Liu cited the "notice
and take down" approach used by Yahoo, the New York Times and the
Washington Post websites in the United States as an example. Those
famous sites' rules for posting content "are even stricter than the
Chinese Government rules," DDG Liu declared. A/S Kramer pointed out
that there is a very large difference between the editor of a private
publication making decisions on the content of an online website and
the state ordering the same behavior. In the United States, there is
no provision for the U.S. Government to prevent a newspaper or a
website from running any article. The right to create websites for
or against any political or other position is guaranteed to all.


16. (C) A/S Kramer informed DDG Liu that he tried to arrange to hold
a webchat while in China, but had not received permission. DDG Liu
stated that he knew nothing about such a request, but speculated that
perhaps Chinese Internet providers do not wish to be involved with
such sensitive material. DDG Liu re-emphasized his point that China
has its own way of addressing these issues, and cannot be expected to
"copy" the United States. He invited A/S Kramer to visit an Internet
bar to see Chinese Internet expression and use in action. "We may
not reach common ground on this issue," DDG Liu said, "but we can
increase our common understanding."


17. (U) PARTICIPANTS:

United States
--------------
David J. Kramer, Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human
Rights, and Labor
Thomas Christensen, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for East
Asian and Pacific Affairs
Robert K. Harris, Assistant Legal Advisor, Department of State
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights
and Labor, Department of State
Richard W. Behrend, Advisor, Bureau of Population, Refugees and
Migration, Department of State
Ben Moeling, Deputy Chief, Political Section, Embassy Beijing
(notetaker)
Jeannette M. Windon, Special Assistant, Office of Democracy and
Global Affairs, Department of State
Andrea Goodman, Political Officer, Bureau of East Asian and Pacific
Affairs, Department of State
Vicky Segal, Interpreter

PRC
---

Liu Zhengrong, Deputy Director General, Internet Department, State
Council Information Office
Zhang Gongzheng, Deputy Director, Foreign Affairs Office, State
Council Information Office (interpreter)
Kou Wang, Deputy Director, Internet Department, State Council
Information Office
Zhao Jianguo, Director, Chinese Internet Media Research Center
Chen Yue, Deputy Director, Chinese Internet Media Research Center
An Li, Director, Foreign Affairs Office, Chinese Internet Media
Research Center

BEIJING 00002172 004 OF 004




18. The delegation cleared this message.

PICCUTA