Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
07VIENTIANE144
2007-02-22 09:29:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Vientiane
Cable title:  

UNHCR AND ICRC REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVES DISCUSS

Tags:  LA PGOV PHUM PREF PREL SMIG 
pdf how-to read a cable
VZCZCXRO4410
RR RUEHCHI
DE RUEHVN #0144/01 0530929
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
R 220929Z FEB 07
FM AMEMBASSY VIENTIANE
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 0915
INFO RUEHBK/AMEMBASSY BANGKOK 7155
RUEHRL/AMEMBASSY BERLIN 0148
RUEHBY/AMEMBASSY CANBERRA 0975
RUEHFR/AMEMBASSY PARIS 0218
RUEHSM/AMEMBASSY STOCKHOLM 0684
RUEHCHI/AMCONSUL CHIANG MAI 0513
RUEHBS/USEU BRUSSELS
RUEHGV/USMISSION GENEVA 0591
RUCNDT/USMISSION USUN NEW YORK 0150
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 VIENTIANE 000144 

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/MLS (BESTIC),PRM/FO (DAS GREENE),
DRL/AWH (ORONA),AND IO/FO (DAS WARLICK AND LAGON); BANGKOK
ALSO FOR REFCOORD

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/21/2017
TAGS: LA PGOV PHUM PREF PREL SMIG
SUBJECT: UNHCR AND ICRC REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVES DISCUSS
HMONG ISSUES

REF: A. BANGKOK 0596


B. VIENTIANE 0110

C. 06 VIENTIANE 1205

D. 06 VIENTIANE 1045

Classified By: Ambassador Patricia M. Haslach: reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 VIENTIANE 000144

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/MLS (BESTIC),PRM/FO (DAS GREENE),
DRL/AWH (ORONA),AND IO/FO (DAS WARLICK AND LAGON); BANGKOK
ALSO FOR REFCOORD

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/21/2017
TAGS: LA PGOV PHUM PREF PREL SMIG
SUBJECT: UNHCR AND ICRC REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVES DISCUSS
HMONG ISSUES

REF: A. BANGKOK 0596


B. VIENTIANE 0110

C. 06 VIENTIANE 1205

D. 06 VIENTIANE 1045

Classified By: Ambassador Patricia M. Haslach: reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)


1. (C) Summary: The Ambassador met with Bangkok-based
representatives of both UNHCR and ICRC to review the recent
spurt of issues relating to the problems the Government of
Laos (GOL) has with its Hmong minority. Both UNHCR and ICRC
help hold keys to resolving Hmong issues, from the
decades-old but dwindling insurgency to dealing with the
thousands of Lao Hmong in Thailand, including the 8000 at the
holding camp in Petchabun Province. Unfortunately, the GOL
is missing opportunities -- neither UNHCR nor ICRC have been
able to make appointments with GOL officials during their
visits. Fortunately, both take their responsibilities
seriously and will continue to try to establish and expand
their relationships with the GOL. For UNHCR, that means a
possible visit by Erika Feller, UNHCR's Director of
International Protection, in April. End summary.

UNHCR MEETING
--------------

2. (SBU) The Ambassador met with Mr. Hasim Utkan, UNHCR's
Bangkok-based Regional Representative, and his Deputy, Mr.
Giuseppe de Vincentis, on February 20 to discuss a range of
issues relating to the Hmong minority group. The UNHCR has
not had a presence in Laos since the GOL asked it to stop
operations and leave as of December 31, 2001.

The Nong Khai Group (152 2)
--------------

3. (C) Mr. Utkan called Nong Khai, where more than 150 Lao
Hmong have been held for an extended period, "a no man's
land." Although the Thai Prime Minister, after an
unsuccessful attempt on January 30 to deport this group to
Laos (even though all had UNHCR refugee determination -- ref
A),had promised that resettlement abroad would be
considered, Utkan pointed out that no one has been allowed

access to the group since. One problem is that the Thai and
Lao had reached a bilateral agreement to deport the group as
illegal migrants, and the Thais say the Lao side insists the
agreement be carried out. Both U.S. and Australian refugee
processing officers have been on standby for more than a
week, but the Thais continue to deny access. It is unclear
when this will be resolved. Utkan expressed appreciation to
the Ambassador for the Embassy having sent a PolOff to Nong
Khai (in coordination with Embassy Bangkok) to help monitor
the situation on January 30. (Note: the basic group included
152 people; since then 2 babies have been born.)


4. (C) Utkan also noted tension between the Thais and the Lao
over the failed deportation may be affecting his attempts to
improve relations between UNHCR and the Lao at this time.
Although the Government of Laos (GOL) is aware that he is
visiting Vientiane this week, GOL officials are choosing not
to meet with him. GOL-UNHCR relations have been difficult
for some time. The new Lao Ambassador in Bangkok has chosen
not to meet with Utkan. So in Vientiane, Utkan is limited to
meeting with UN officials as well as a range of other
ambassadors including those from Germany (the current EU
President),France, and Australia.


5. (C) One of the messages Utkan is trying to make clear
during his discussions here is that the 152 ( 2) have all
been screened and have all been officially designated as
refugees. Utkan noted that the High Commissioner sees this
group as important because Thailand has never deported
recognized refugees before. If the deportation were to
happen, it would be a bad precedent. Moreover, UNHCR is
concerned about the Thai and Lao reaching a bilateral
agreement about this group -- concerned that this type of
bilateral agreement could itself be a bad precedent when
dealing with refugee groups. Thus UNHCR is considering the
fate of this 152 2 group to be an issue of principle. The
Ambassador opined this group may still be at risk of local
Thai authorities deciding unilaterally to push the group back

VIENTIANE 00000144 002 OF 004


to Laos to honor the bilateral agreement. Utkan agreed the
situation is unpredictable and noted that no one is really
sure who is making decisions in Thailand at this time.

The Petchabun Group
--------------

6. (C) Utkan provided the Ambassador a copy of a revised
"Proposal for Joint Plan of Action: Laos Hmong in Thailand,"
which he said had just been completed on February 16 (copy
e-mailed to EAP/MLS, PRM, and Embassy Bangkok). The goal is
an integrated solution to resolve the long-term situation of
the Hmong at the holding camp in Thailand's Petchabun
Province -- now numbering 8000. UNHCR has been trying to
negotiate a solution for the Petchabun situation since July
2005, insisting on screening as a component. Utkan said the
Thais have not accepted this and have been especially
inflexible since the September 2006 coup.

Screening
--------------

7. (C) Utkan noted that the Thais have raised the possibility
of returning the Hmong, apparently including the 152 2 as
well as the larger Petchabun group, to Laos with third-party
monitoring and possible screening of these groups after they
have been returned to Laos. Utkan emphasized that there is
no "Lao component" to the current issue of the Hmong groups
in Thailand. Thailand has responsibility, and the only way
to resolve the Petchabun situation is via screening.
Monitoring of those who are returned to Laos after being
screened out would be a longer-term issue. UNHCR has done
monitoring of those who have been voluntarily repatriated in
other situations, including in Vietnam.


8. (C) De Vincentis noted the Thais have developed a
screening process for Karen refugees; he expressed hope this
type of system might be adopted for the Hmong. Utkan agreed
Thai cooperation would be essential to resolve the Petchabun
situation, noting the Thai army knows a great deal about the
Hmong being held, having interviewed them after they entered
the holding camp. If UNHCR were to try to start from scratch
on interviewing all 8000, it may take up to two years. If
the Thai military were to accept responsibility for
"profiling" the group to identify those who actually have a
possible claim to refugee status (perhaps 15% of the group),
UNHCR could focus its interviews on this smaller group --
speeding up the process significantly. Thailand did
pre-screening of other groups in the mid-1980s as well as the
1990s. UNHCR proposed this 18 months ago for the Petchabun
group, but the Thais have not responded.

Moving Forward
--------------

9. (C) Utkan mentioned that UNHCR is planning for a possible
visit to the region of Erika Feller, UNHCR's Director of
International Protection in the second half of April. Feller
is likely to visit Thailand and Malaysia. UNHCR is
evaluating whether she should also visit Laos to try to
reopen a dialogue between the GOL and UNHCR so that GOL
officials can begin to overcome their suspicions of UNHCR and
gain a better understanding of UNHCR's policies and
practices. The Ambassador thought a Feller visit would be
helpful, although expectations should be modest. The GOL's
senior leaders and officials from the GOL's security
structure still have only limited exposure to the outside
world -- not unlike the situation in North Korea. Thus
achieving, for example, a MOU on allowing UNHCR to operate in
Laos as the result of one visit would be unlikely. Utkan
agreed, pointing out that UNHCR's MOU with Vietnam took a
year to negotiate, and that happened after Vietnam had
already decided to "change course" in its relations with the
rest of the world.

The K52 Visit
--------------

10. (C) The Ambassador reviewed the recent MFA-organized trip
for Vientiane-based diplomats to meet a Hmong community at
Kilometer 52, including a family of 5 returned from Thailand
with a group of 50 Lao economic migrants. (Note: none in
this group had claimed refugee status -- ref B). We see this

VIENTIANE 00000144 003 OF 004


as a preliminary first step by MFA and are continuing to push
for the second trip MFA promised -- to Bolikhamsai Province
where a group of 16 Hmong have been pushed back from
Thailand. This group of 16 has members linked to the ongoing
insurgency, and verifying the status of this group is more
important. Moreover, Bolikhamsai is of specific interest,
because information from there is rarely released --
including any word on the more than 1000 Hmong who may have
surrendered in Bolikhamsai during the past two years (ref C).
The Ambassador praised the role of the German Ambassador, at
this point also representing the EU Presidency, in pushing
the GOL on the broad range of Hmong-related issues currently
underway.

The Children
--------------

11. (C) The Ambassador and Utkan reviewed the case of the 26
Hmong children irregularly returned to Laos in December 2005
and now held for more than a year. At one point, there was a
rumor that some of the children -- the 21 girls -- might be
released by the GOL once the deportation of the 152 2 had
taken place (even though there is no apparent logical linkage
between the two cases). Still no one believes the five boys
-- some of whom have reached age 18 and would no longer be
considered "children" -- will be released, especially with
information about their mistreatment becoming available. At
any rate, with the failure of the January 30 attempt to
return the 152 2, the fate of the children remains in limbo.
The issue refuses to go away and remains a benchmark for the
international community's perception of the GOL: if the GOL
-- a signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child
-- is not willing to treat these children humanely, how can
the GOL be trusted to deal with the larger Hmong issues
justly? De Vincentis noted that the group of 152 2 detained
in Nong Khai by the Thais includes more than 90 children, and
Thailand is also a signatory to the same Convention.

MEETING WITH ICRC
--------------

12. (C) International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)
Regional Delegation Director Fred Grimm and the Ambassador on
February 21 discussed the Nong Khai situation and the MFA
trip to Kilometer 52. The Ambassador emphasized we will
continue to press MFA for the promised trip to Bolikhamsai
Province. She assessed the MFA as being increasing aware of
a need to do public relations activities to offset the
negative publicity accruing from the January 30 attempted
deportation. However these issues move forward, ICRC is
being widely viewed as a logical choice as an international
monitor within Laos.


13. (C) Grimm told the Ambassador that he has talked to
UNHCR/Bangkok and the Thai National Security Council (NSC)
about ICRC as a potential monitor of returned Lao Hmong, and
the NSC had been very supportive. Grimm noted that he had
been in Geneva and had discussed Hmong issues at the ICRC
Headquarters. ICRC sees that it could play a monitoring role
if invited and if minimal conditions are met regarding
follow-up. It would not be acceptable for ICRC only to meet
a group on arrival and provide a returnee assistance package.
The GOL would have to agree to ICRC's subsequent monitoring
of the group.


14. (C) Grimm noted disappointment that the GOL had not kept
an agreement made in relation to the domestic surrender of a
group of 354 in the Vang Vieng area in October 2006. The
ICRC had coordinated with the Lao Red Cross (LRC) to have the
LRC provide assistance to the group members when they
surrendered (ref D) with the quiet understanding that ICRC
monitors would be able to visit the group after it had been
resettled. This monitoring has never happened. If the GOL
does not keep its agreements, ICRC will be unable to play a
role.


15. (C) Like Utkan, Grimm noted that he had been unable to
make appointments to meet any Lao officials on this trip. He
has been unable to make progress on access to prisons, a
major goal. Grimm said he is using his time to meet with
members of the Vientiane-based diplomatic community for

VIENTIANE 00000144 004 OF 004


updated inforomation. He plans to be back after the
mid-April Lao New Year celebration to hold a seminar with
provincial Lao Red Cross officials to discuss ICRC's various
roles.

Water Projects
--------------

16. (C) One area going well for ICRC is water projects, which
ICRC has been undertaking for several years. The GOL has
approved ICRC expanding its water projects into a fourth
area, Phoune District, in the former Saisombun Special Zone
-- now part of northern Vientiane Province. Still Grimm felt
this is slow progress since it has taken so much time to gain
this permission.

Comment
--------------

17. (C) It is a bit disappointing that both UNHCR's Utkan and
ICRC's Grimm have been unable to meet GOL officials during
their visits this week. At some point the GOL would have to
realize it needs both organizations operating in Laos to
effectively resolve the range of problems the GOL has with
its Hmong minority -- problems ranging from finally ending a
dwindling insurgency to finding a process to return thousands
of economic migrants from Thailand. The GOL has little
credibility with the international community in terms of its
human rights policies; only neutral and respected
international organizations like UNHCR and ICRC can help
provide that credibility. The Embassy will seek ways to
quietly send this message, being careful not to increase GOL
suspicions about U.S.-UNHCR or U.S.-ICRC linkages. Mr. Utkan
asked for Embassy support for the visit of UNHCR's Erika
Feller, and we will seek opportunities to also push this
visit since we believe she would bring a message that GOL
officials need to hear.
HASLACH