BEN ALI TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CODEL TANNER

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 TUNIS 000699

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

STATE FOR NEA/FO (GRAY) AND NEA/MAG (HARRIS AND HOPKINS)
NSC FOR ABRAMS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/04/2017
TAGS: PGOV KDEM PREL PTER TS
SUBJECT: BEN ALI TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CODEL TANNER

REF: TUNIS 698

Classified By: AMBASSADOR ROBERT F. GODEC FOR REASONS 1.4 (b) AND (d)

--------------
Summary
--------------


1. (C) In a meeting May 31 with Congressman John Tanner
(D-TN) and nine other Representatives, President Zine El
Abidine Ben Ali emphasized his commitment to close ties with
the United States. He also:

-- asked for more US economic engagement;
-- insisted the ruling political party is too strong, and
that he is working to weaken it;
-- criticized China for its actions in the region;
-- warned Iran poses a danger, and must not get a nuclear
weapon;
-- said the United States "cannot leave Iraq defeated;"
-- opined that a solution between Israel and the Palestinians
must wait for the departure of Hamas; and
-- said Tunisia would support any solution to the
Israel-Palestinian situation the United States could suggest.


2. (C) The congressmen underscored the excellent relations
between the United States and Tunisia, and said they were in
Tunis to listen. After the meeting, several representatives
said they were impressed by Ben Ali,s vigor and openness.
End summary.

--------------
Ben Ali meets CODEL Tanner
--------------


3. (SBU) President Ben Ali met for almost 90 minutes on May
31 with the congressional delegation led by Congressman John
Tanner (D-TN). Participants were:

Rep. Paul Gillmor (R-OH)
Rep. Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO)
Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL)
Rep. Dennis Moore (R-KS)
Rep. John Boozman (R-AR)
Rep. Baron Hill (D-IN)
Rep. Albert Chandler (D-KY)
Rep. Charles Melacon (D-LA)
Ambassador Robert F. Godec

During the meeting, the President spoke mostly in Arabic,
with interpretation provided by the Director of Tunisia,s
External Communications Agency (ATCE),Oussama Romdhani.

-------------- --------------
Relations: Good, but more economic engagement, please
-------------- --------------


4. (C) Ben Ali warmly welcomed the CODEL, noting that the
United States and Tunisia "share the same values and
principles." Chairman Tanner replied that the delegation had
received a "heart-warming" reception. He added the
delegation was impressed with Tunisia,s economic progress,
and that "we appreciate your leadership in this area." He
underscored the delegation was in Tunis to listen.
Congressman Gillmor emphasized the good relations between
Tunisia and the United States, noting our cooperation on key
challenges, including security. He asked how the delegation
might further strengthen US-Tunisian ties.


5. (C) Ben Ali responded that US-Tunisian political
relations are "outstanding." The congressional visit is a
"token" of this "special friendship." Trade and business
relations, however, are not at the same level, describing
them as "modest." He added that while the United States is
establishing a military command in Africa, China is active
offering easy loans and investments.


6. (C) The Ambassador responded that US-Tunisian relations
are very good, but agreed more could be done to strengthen
economic bonds. He said he had discussed economic relations
with several GOT ministers (including Minister Jouini),US
officials and business representatives. The Embassy is
working, he added, to bring a US trade and investment mission
to Tunisia, and had raised with Washington the possibility of
economic discussions. Opportunities for commercial
relations, the Ambassador said, would be improved if Tunisia
took additional steps, for example, permitted franchising.
Ben Ali responded emphatically that Tunisia wants stronger
economic ties and would "reciprocate entirely."

TUNIS 00000699 002 OF 004



--------------
Political: "Let me share a secret..."
--------------


7. (C) The President turned to political matters,
emphasizing the "political process has to move on" in
Tunisia. It is "our most daunting task," he said, and the
big challenge is to "change mind sets." He reviewed
Tunisia,s political progress, including the presence of
opposition parties and women in Parliament. Ben Ali noted
that while an occasional "abuse" may happen, it "does not
determine whether we are making progress." He added Tunisia
is taking steps in many areas, citing the schools in remote
villages, home ownership levels and the right to vote.
These, too, are the basis for freedom and democracy.


8. (C) Ben Ali continued: "Let me share a secret, I want to
weaken the ruling party." He said the ruling Democratic
Constitutional Rally (RCD) is too strong, and that he wants
to strengthen the opposition parties. Congressman Tanner
responded that the President,s remarks were "most
enlightening" and promised to take them back to Washington.

--------------
Terrorism: Vigilant against extremists
--------------


9. (C) Responding to a question on terrorism from
Congressman Tanner, Ben Ali emphasized his own long fight
against it. He detailed his proposal for an international
conference and code of conduct. He complained that Rachid
Ghannouchi (the leader of the banned an-Nahdha party) had
been responsible for bombings in the 1980s, but was now
living in London. Regionally, he said fundamentalists had
chosen in the 1990s to target North Africa, and began in
Algeria because of its size and oil riches. He added there
is still a threat coming from Algeria, and from Libya.


10. (C) The reasons for terrorism are diverse, according to
Ben Ali. They include the extremist religious discourse,
economic problems, programming on satellite television, and
developments in Iraq and the Palestinian territories.
Tunisia, he added, is "vigilant" not to allow "elements" to
go to Iraq or Palestine. It is, he said, "our duty."

-------------- --
Regional: "Neither China nor Iran care much for
the Arab world"
-------------- --


11. (C) Congressman Moore asked for Ben Ali,s assessment of
Iran. The President responded that he sees two dangers in
the region. The first, he said, is China, adding that he had
read a book 40 years ago entitled the "Yellow Peril."
"Today," Ben Ali said, "we see it happening." The second
danger is Iran. Ben Ali said, "While I don,t want to accuse
the United States of intentionally helping Iran, that is what
your policies did."


12. (C) Ben Ali said there is a Shia trend across the Gulf
region, the Levant and the entire Arab world. This trend, he
said, poses a danger. He added, "Neither China nor Iran care
much for the Arab world." Ben Ali continued, "If Iran gets a
nuclear weapon then it will pose a very grave danger." He
said the Iranian government had sent a special envoy to
reassure Tunisia that its development of nuclear power was
entirely peaceful. "I admonished him," Ben Ali said, by
asking how Iran could talk about the peaceful development of
nuclear power when at the same time saying Israel should
disappear from the face of the earth. The congressmen warmly
welcomed Ben Ali,s views on Iran.

--------------
Iraq: "US cannot leave Iraq defeated"
--------------


13. (C) Congressman Chandler asked for Ben Ali,s assessment
of Iraq. The President replied while Saddam Hussein had been
a despot, Tunisia had opposed the decision to remove him by
force. Iraq, he said, will now become a Shia nation,
possibly an anti-American Shia nation. Moreover, the current
conflict could easily spread from Iraq to its neighbors and
the United States should not expect the situation to
stabilize anytime soon. The current Iraqi government is not,
Ben Ali said, totally representative and is not fulfilling
the aspirations of the Iraqi people. He also expressed
concern about the declining US public support for the war in
Iraq.

TUNIS 00000699 003 OF 004




14. (C) Despite the many challenges and complexities, Ben
Ali forcefully said the United States "should not pick up its
luggage and go" and "cannot leave Iraq defeated." The United
States, he said, must ensure a level of stability in Iraq.

-------------- --------------
Palestine: "We must wait for the departure of Hamas"
-------------- --------------


15. (C) At the request of Congressman Gillmor, Ben Ali
reviewed Tunisia,s views on the Palestinians and Israel.
After noting Tunisia,s role in the first talks between
Israel and the Palestinians, Ben Ali said the situation has
become even more difficult in recent years. It was a
"mistake," he said, to allow Hamas to enter the Palestinian
government. With Yasser Arafat, a solution could have been
found, said Ben Ali, and indeed, almost was.


16. (C) Peace, however, with Hamas is not possible, Ben Ali
said. How can there be a solution with someone who does not
recognize Israel,s right to exist? The only answer is that,
"We must wait for the departure of Hamas." He added,
however, that the United States has a continuing role to play
in settling this problem. He concluQd: any solution the
United States can suggest, Tunisia pledges to support it.

--------------
Wrap Up: Djerba Pilgrimage
--------------


17. (C) Congressman Tanner closed by saying that the meeting
with the President reaffirmed the strong, long-lasting
friendship between the United States and Tunisia. The
session, he said, had been most enlightening and reaffirmed
the delegation,s decision to come to Tunisia.


18. (C) President Ben Ali concluded by noting Tunisia,s
commitment to co-existence and security in the region. This
commitment was demonstrated, he said, by the recent
pilgrimage of thousands of Jews to the Tunisian island of
Djerba, home of an ancient Jewish synagogue. During the
event, there was "no difference" between Jews and Muslims on
the island. It was, he said, a model for the region. He
concluded he was pleased and honored by the congressional
visit.

--------------
Bio notes
--------------


19. (C) Throughout the conversation, Ben Ali was vigorous,
open and engaged. Despite the rumors regarding Ben Ali,s
poor health, he showed no outward sign of illness during the
session. On several occasions, he interjected words and even
phrases in English. He clearly understood at least some of
what the congressmen said in English. Romdhani later
commented to the Ambassador that Ben Ali does, in fact,
understand English, sometimes making his role as interpreter
difficult.

--------------
Comment
--------------


20. (C) Ben Ali,s performance was strong and well-received.
It was remarkable that the President offered so much time
(almost ninety minutes) to the delegation. Afterward, two of
the congressmen said that it was the most impressive meeting
they have had with a head of state. The delegation found Ben
Ali,s remarks on regional issues, notably Iran and
Palestine, welcome. Even on Iraq, the congressmen
appreciated the President,s analysis. Ben Ali,s strongly
negative remarks on China were more surprising. Although he
did not say so specifically, they were probably partly the
result of Chinese economic competition and the recent
departure from Tunisia of some manufacturing firms for
lower-cost China.


21. (C) On the political front, Ben Ali, clearly
anticipating questions on Tunisia,s lack of progress, turned
aside the issue with his forceful explanation of his
commitment to further liberalization, even though it did not
reflect reality on the ground. In contrast, his vocal
support for deeping economic and commercial relations is new
and can be used to further US economic goals in Tunisia. We
should follow up on this opening with a visit from an
interagency economic delegation, which could pave the way for
a third TIFA Council meeting later in the year.

TUNIS 00000699 004 OF 004




22. (C) Overall, Ben Ali,s vigor and seeming openness
impressed the congressional delegation. In brief press
remarks at end of the meeting, Chairman Tanner said that he
found Ben Ali,s comments to be encouraging. He added that
it was clear the United States and Tunisia share many values
and that he would be sure to share the President,s comments
with other officials in Washington. Tanner's statement was
broadcast on Tunisian television (Tunis 7) national news the
same evening.


23. (SBU) CODEL Tanner did not clear this message.
GODEC