Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
07SHANGHAI575
2007-09-06 06:55:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Consulate Shanghai
Cable title:  

AMBASSADOR'S MEETING WITH SHANGHAI BISHOP JIN

Tags:  PGOV PINR KIRF CH VT 
pdf how-to read a cable
VZCZCXRO9379
RR RUEHCN RUEHGH RUEHROV
DE RUEHGH #0575/01 2490655
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
R 060655Z SEP 07
FM AMCONSUL SHANGHAI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 6228
INFO RUEHBJ/AMEMBASSY BEIJING 1387
RUEHIN/AIT TAIPEI 0690
RUEHHK/AMCONSUL HONG KONG 0991
RUEHCN/AMCONSUL CHENGDU 0866
RUEHSH/AMCONSUL SHENYANG 0868
RUEHGZ/AMCONSUL GUANGZHOU 0846
RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN 0020
RHEHAAA/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON DC
RUEHGH/AMCONSUL SHANGHAI 6688
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 SHANGHAI 000575 

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E.O. 12958: DECL: 9/6/2017
TAGS: PGOV PINR KIRF CH VT
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR'S MEETING WITH SHANGHAI BISHOP JIN

REF: SHANGHAI 412 AND PREVIOUS

CLASSIFIED BY: Clark T. Randt, Ambassador, , U.S. Embassy
Beijing.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)



C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 SHANGHAI 000575

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DEPT FOR EAP/CM AND DRL/IRF
NSC FOR WILDER

E.O. 12958: DECL: 9/6/2017
TAGS: PGOV PINR KIRF CH VT
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR'S MEETING WITH SHANGHAI BISHOP JIN

REF: SHANGHAI 412 AND PREVIOUS

CLASSIFIED BY: Clark T. Randt, Ambassador, , U.S. Embassy
Beijing.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)




1. (C) Summary: In a meeting with the Ambassador on September 5,
Shanghai Bishop Aloysius Luxian Jin was pessimistic about the
prospects of reconciliation between the Vatican and Beijing.
Talks were moving at a "marathon" pace and reconciliation would
likely not occur in time for the 2008 Olympics. He worried that
progress would become even slower after the Olympics when there
would be less pressure on China. Nonetheless, Jin was "very
satisfied" with the development of the Shanghai Catholic
community, which had 160,000 parishioners and 144 churches. The
91-year old Jin appeared to be in good health and was mentally
sharp during the meeting. End Summary.

Reconciliation Still a Long Way Away
--------------


2. (C) The Ambassador called on Shanghai Bishop Jin on
September 5 to discuss PRC-Vatican relations and the religious
situation in Shanghai. Bishop Jin remained pessimistic about
the prospects of reconciliation between Beijing and the Vatican.
He was pleased with the Pope's June 30 letter to Catholics in
China, which showed an openness to discussions on the
appointment of Bishops. Bishop Jin hoped that Beijing was
seriously discussing the letter. However, he continues to
believe that reconciliation between Rome and Beijing will take a
long time. There are talks going on between the two sides but
these talks are like a "marathon." Both sides must make
concessions for there to be progress.


3. (C) Although it would be to the Chinese Government's
advantage to reconcile with the Vatican before the 2008
Olympics, it was unlikely that there would be a breakthrough in
the next year. Bishop Jin worried that after the Olympics,
progress would become even slower because there would be less
pressure on Beijing. He asserted that the USG, as a powerful
government, could play a positive role and urged the USG to put
more pressure on Beijing to reconcile with the Vatican. The

Ambassador assured Bishop Jin that President Bush has raised the
Vatican's relations with China in nearly every meeting with
President Hu Jintao and will continue to press the Chinese on
the issue of religious freedom in China.

Shanghai Diocese Flourishing
--------------


4. (C) Bishop Jin was "very satisfied" with the development of
the Catholic community in Shanghai. The diocese was
flourishing. It has 160,000 parishioners, 144 churches, 72
priests, 88 nuns and two seminaries. It is also building 5 new
churches. In comparison, Beijing only has about 20 Catholic
churches. The diocese also has a publishing house that has
already printed 400 books and a printing house that has printed
more than one million copies of the New Testament.


5. (C) Bishop Jin worried that there are not enough priests to
support the growing diocese and noted that he must rely more and
more on lay people to keep the diocese running. He was also
concerned that most of the priests and nuns are from outside of
Shanghai. Of the Diocese's 72 priests and 88 nuns, only 10
priests and 11 nuns come from Shanghai. According to Bishop
Jin, most parents in Shanghai were reluctant to allow their only
child to enter the clergy. On the positive side, 64 priests are
relatively young and there are 120 students in the seminaries.
Many of the non-Shanghai native priests, sisters and seminarians
hail from northeastern China.


6. (C) Bishop Jin asserted that the religious situation in
Shanghai is not typical. China is an immense country and there
are differences in the development of religion between cities in
the East and those in the interior. In addition, the
application of religious policy differ depending on the local
authorities. The Shanghai United Front and Religious Affairs
Bureau is very open minded and liberal. Shanghai Party
Secretary Xi Jinping also appeared to be liberal. Bishop Jin

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was less positive about Central Government leaders. He said
Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association Vice Chairman Liu Bainian

SHANGHAI 00000575 002 OF 002


is too famous to be helpful. He also reported that he met with
State Administration for Religious Affairs Administrator Ye
Xiaowen about one month ago. They had an hour-long discussion.
The Bishop said he spoke very frankly and Ye did not appear to
be unhappy.

Religious Prisoners
--------------


7. (C) When asked about the underground church in Shanghai,
Bishop Jin said the underground church is "almost nothing."
Bishop Fan Zhongliang, the head of the Shanghai underground
church, had Alzheimer disease and the church also had only 10
priests and no church buildings. Bishop Su Zhimin of Baoding,
Hebei Province was also very sick. According to Bishop Jin,
Bishop Su was not in jail but was under house arrest. He
received good treatment, but was not free. When asked about
what other imprisoned Catholics the USG should raise in meetings
with the Chinese, Bishop Jin said that Bishop Jia Zhiguo of
Zheng Ding, Hebei Province was a good man who has been
imprisoned from time to time. He was unclear whether Bishop Jia
was still in prison but noted that four months ago he was
detained and two months ago he was free. He noted that Bishop
Jia had met with him numerous times and asked for assistance.
Bishop Jin provided him with books and some money. The Bishop
suggested that the Ambassador raise the issue of dissidents with
Minister of Public Security Zhou Yongkang, noting that Zhou was
also on the Politburo. According to Bishop Jin, Zhou was rather
liberal and could be helpful. (Comment: That is not the common
impression of Zhou that we have. End Comment.)


8. (C) Bishop Jin noted that he himself had spent 27 years in
prison. He said that luckily he was in prison with other
high-profile prisoners and treated relatively well. He was not
tortured and the food was not too bad. During times of intense
political struggles, prisoners like him were treated worst. He
added that one could always tell how intense the class struggle
was on the outside by the quality of food. At the end of the
meeting, he said the United States had already provided him with
a great deal of help and he had many friends in the United
States. He noted that many in America seemed to have
misconceptions about the church in China and some have even
called him a traitor. He asked the Ambassador to tell Americans
that there is only one Catholic Church in China, the Roman
Catholic Church, and that the Catholics in China are loyal to
the Vatican.

Bishop Jin Still Healthy and Active
--------------


9. (C) 91-year Bishop Jin appeared to be in good health and
mentally active. He recalled details of his first meeting with
the Ambassador at the American Club in Beijing five years ago
and the second time during a previous trip by the Ambassador to
Shanghai. The Bishop said he used to travel a great deal and
visited the United States in 2004. However, since his heart
attack three years ago, he has not been able to travel, which he
said was a pity. At the time of his heart attack, the Shanghai
Diocese believed that Bishop Jin was near death and had begun to
prepare for his funeral. It had even bought new clothes for the
Bishop's burial. Fortunately, the Bishop recovered and appears
to still be in full control of his flourishing diocese.
JARRETT