A/S DESUTTER'S MEETINGS WITH ITALIAN POLITICAL

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 ROME 002167

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/11/2017
TAGS: PARM PREL START MNUC MCAP MARR US RS IT NATO
EU
SUBJECT: A/S DESUTTER'S MEETINGS WITH ITALIAN POLITICAL
DIRECTOR TERZI AND OTHERS, ROME, SEPTEMBER 12-15

REF: A. ROME 2061

B. VATICAN 138

Classified By: Acting Political Minister-Counselor Jonathan Cohen for R
easons 1.4 (B) and (D)


1. (SBU) Summary: Assistant Secretary for Verification,
Compliance, and Implementation Paula A. DeSutter (in Rome for
meetings from September 10-12 with Russian MFA Director
Antonov on a post-START arrangement, see Ref A) met September
12-15 with Italian officials including MFA Political Director
Giulio Terzi and President of the Italian Center for Higher
Defense Studies (CASD) Lt. Gen. C. A. Valotto. Separately,
she met with Vatican Undersecretary of State Pietro Parolin
(Ref B). Topics included the results of the post-START
negotiations just concluded in Rome and the status of
negotiations on a broad array of non-proliferation and arms
control agreements under consideration. A/S DeSutter also
spoke on background with Italian senior defense commentators,
held a roundtable with Italian academics and non-governmental
(NGO) representatives, met with Embassy Rome first and second
tour officers, and participated as an observer in an
EU-organized meeting on WMD strategy (the "Solana
Initiative"). End Summary.


2. (C) At a luncheon hosted by Italian MFA Director General
for Political Affairs Giulio Terzi on September 12, A/S
DeSutter discussed the post-START talks, CFE, North Korea,
CTBT, FMCT, and Libya. Also present at the lunch were MFA
Deputy Director General for Political Affairs Filippo Formica
(formerly Director of the MFA Non-Proliferation Office),MFA
Political-Military Office Director Gianni Bardini, and MFA
OSCE Office Director Brunella Borzi. DeSutter was
accompanied by NSC Director for Security Cooperation and
International Security Agreements David Dowley, VCI Senior
Advisor for Compliance Diplomacy Julie Gianelloni Connor and
Poloff.


3. (C) Terzi thanked A/S DeSutter for her offer to brief the
Italian MFA on the broad outlines of the post-START talks
that she and her Russian counterpart were holding in Rome.
He said that he was scheduled to meet with Ambassador Antonov
the following day and appreciated the opportunity to hear
from both sides of the talks. Russia's new assertiveness in
its relations with Europe and the U.S. is a major concern for
Italian foreign policy-makers, who tend to regard Putin's
behavior as an attempt to create a strategic "gray area" in
the European security landscape that he can then exploit for
political purposes.


4. (C) A/S DeSutter said that the post-START discussions were
proceeding in an atmosphere of cordiality and professionalism
and that the current focus of both sides was to improve the
confidence building and transparency measures that are
crucial to the strategic offensive arms reduction regime.
With the START Treaty expiring at the end of 2009, both sides
are particularly keen to put in place a durable post-START
arrangement, but differed over the type of instrument --
Moscow Treaty or new START treaty -- best suited to institute
that arrangement. A/S DeSutter said that discussions were
colored by the Russian need to determine what sort of nation
Russia wants to be, including its degree of integration with
western countries. Terzi agreed that it was imperative to
determine Russian objectives in a number of areas, including
energy policy. A/S DeSutter remarked that the Russians are
emphasizing the need for stability and predictability in arms
control.


5. (C) With regard to the debate over the U.S. proposal to
place interceptors and radar installations in Poland and the
Czech Republic, DeSutter stressed that ten unarmed
interceptors did not pose any realistic threat to Russia and
that current discussions regarding the plan were ongoing
under the lead of ISN A/S Rood. When Terzi asked about the
current status of discussions over the Intermediate-Range
Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF),DeSutter stressed that Russia
has not called into question the basic precepts of the
Treaty, only particular issues bearing on the verification

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regime.

--------------
Adapted CFE
--------------


6. (C) When Terzi raised European concerns over the state of
U.S.-Russian discussions on the Adapted CFE Treaty, DeSutter
noted that the U.S. position continues to be one of
demonstrating solidarity with countries that are still
subjected to the unwanted presence of Russian troops on their
soil. Noting that A/S Fried and Russian Deputy Foreign
Minister Kislyak had just met on CFE issues the previous day,
DeSutter said that the U.S. and Russia maintained an active
dialogue on key CFE issues (Moldova, Gudauta, the Flank
Regime) but stressed that the Europeans had a role to play in
holding the Russians to the Istanbul commitments and keeping
them from lapsing into a new Cold War mentality. She noted
that certain EU members, particularly Germany and on certain
issues France, had a tendency to want to achieve a deal with
the Russians at any cost, including terms that would
undermine NATO. She encouraged Italy to continue to play a
moderating role. We do much better in these negotiations
when Russia is faced with a unified U.S. and Europe, she
said.


7. (C) Terzi noted that Italy was currently engaged in a
balancing act, wanting to be supportive of countries "under
pressure," such as the UK and Poland, while at the same time
affirming the common EU position. By December 12 the EU will
have a common platform, and Italy will support that position.
Terzi commented that Russia needs to understand that the EU
will stand together. He welcomed the package presented in
July in Washington, calling it "timely and well conceived."
Terzi said that Italy is "pressing" Russia to start the
ratification process and commented that Italy can be in the
group of countries that will ratify the Adapted Treaty
quickly. He identified two issues - the question of the
flanks and the definition of "substantial forces" - as
difficult outstanding areas, saying that it is important for
Russia to recognize that is in its interest for the "other
side" to have ceilings. Formica said that he was planning to
attend the upcoming CFE seminar in Germany. He promised to
take our concerns over German initiatives into consideration.


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North Korea
--------------


8. (C) Responding to Terzi's questions about the reported
positive outcome of the Six-Party talks on the North Korean
nuclear program, DeSutter noted that the agreement on
Yongbyon was a positive step, but that Yongbyon was just one
piece of the North Korean nuclear puzzle, whose full outlines
were still to be determined. Many other aspects of the North
Korean program, such as uranium processing, had yet to be
addressed at the necessary level of detail. She noted that
the IAEA approached the question from a narrow "safeguards"
approach, examining materials rather than the broader
outlines of the program itself.

--------------
CTBT, FMCT, PAROS
--------------


9. (C) Terzi reiterated the EU's support for a speedy entry
into force of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and asked
whether the U.S. would recommence testing. DeSutter said
that the U.S. had no plans to conduct a test and summarized
the concerns the U.S. has over the verifiability of the
treaty and the effectiveness of computer modeling and other
detection mechanisms. A CTBT that only banned detectable
tests would not be a significant achievement. Formica said
that Italy welcomed the latest U.S. proposals with regard to
the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty, but was concerned about
obstacles posed by the Chinese and Pakistani positions.
DeSutter agreed, noting that China is the only nuclear power

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without a Fissile Material production ban and that China is
still expanding its nuclear arsenal. When asked about the
Russian proposal to ban weapons in outer space (PAROS),
DeSutter said that the U.S. relied heavily on spaced-based
satellites for many different functions and has its own
national security interests to protect. While the U.S. has
no plans to develop space-based weapons systems, the proposed
treaty was not verifiable and would not accomplish its stated
purpose. DeSutter noted that the treaty as proposed would
not protect satellites against ground-based attacks, as
demonstrated by the recent Chinese destruction of its own
satellite. The U.S. would not enter into discussions that
would impose limitations on the U.S. ability to defend its
satellite network.

--------------
Libyan Chemical Weapons (CW) Program
--------------


10. (C) DeSutter explained her bureau's involvement in the
dismantling of the Libyan WMD program and detailed the
program under which the U.S. had offered to finance the
destruction of the Libyan CW stockpile and the conversion of
its CW program to peaceful uses. She noted that the U.S. had
"stuck out its neck" in order to secure more time for Tripoli
to convert its CW production facility and destroy its stocks,
and therefore had been somewhat surprised to hear reports
that the Libyans were abandoning a previous plan to use U.S.
companies for this project in favor of Italian firms. Terzi
explained that the Libyans had approached Italy a few years
ago with a similar request to use Italian financing for the
conversion of its CW program, in exchange for improved
cooperation on illegal immigration issues. (Note: the bulk of
sea-borne clandestine immigration into Italy embarks from
Libyan ports, but Libyan cooperation with Italian authorities
has been sporadic and half-hearted.) After interagency
consultations, the Italians had agreed to provide assistance,
and Italian companies were allowed to bid on two Libyan
contracts, one focusing on destruction and the other on
conversion of CW-related items. The Libyans subsequently put
the project on hold for several months, citing the need to
consult with the OPCW. A few months ago the Libyan
government informed Rome of its desire to go forward with the
plan, but the Italians subsequently learned that the OPCW was
still examining the detailed plans. Terzi said that Italy
had been surprised to learn that the Libyans had already
secured financing from the U.S. for the same project.

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Additional Meetings
--------------


11. (U) On September 13, A/S DeSutter, accompanied by Julie
Connor and VCI/SI Director Jerry Taylor, met with Lt. Gen.
Giuseppe Valotto, President of CASD (Centro Alti Studi per la
Difesa -- Center for Higher Defense Studies),the MoD's
premier training and research center with links to the
National Defense University in Washington (of which A/S
DeSutter is a graduate). Valotto expressed a strong interest
in the post-START discussions and invited A/S DeSutter to
deliver a lecture on strategic arms negotiations at CASD
during a future visit. Later that day, A/S DeSutter met with
foreign policy correspondents from leading Italian
newspapers, who showed great interest in the post-START talks
(Corriere della Sera, Italy's leading daily, ran a story
about the talks the next day). A/S DeSutter also met with
mission first- and second-tour Foreign Service Officers to
discuss WMD-related issues and to exchange ideas on how to
help make demarches in this area more effective.


12. (U) On September 14, A/S DeSutter met with 17 foreign
policy and international security experts from a wide range
of Italian think tanks and universities. Invitees asked a
number of questions concerning strategic arms reduction,
non-proliferation, chemical weapons, and CFE, demonstrating
the high level of Italian academic interest in arms control
negotiations.


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13. (C) A/S DeSutter participated as an observer September
15 in a meeting and luncheon organized by Annalisa Giannella,
who serves as the Personal Representative for
Nonproliferation of WMD for Javier Solana, the EU High
Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP).
The meeting served as a preparatory meeting for the proposed
EU-hosted symposium, "Addressing Strategic Challenges
Together," scheduled for November 13-14, 2007 in Brussels.
Some representatives at the preparatory meeting (South
Africa, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Russia) urged an
expansion of the conference participants to include other
countries, such as Cuba, Iran, and North Korea, while EU
representatives noted that the number of invited countries
was already quite large (58, plus delegations representing
international organizations like the IAEA) and that its
purpose was not to have a worldwide conference but rather a
smaller conference of countries interested in the issue.
Concerning topics to be discussed, some countries pressed the
need to discuss disarmament as well as non-proliferation, and
the conference organizers clarified that discussion of
disarmament can be accommodated in the proposed conference
structure. The USG rep to the meeting, A/DAS Andrew Semmel,
said the need was for a smaller, more focused conference
rather than a conference that would just go over the same
ground as previous conferences, and A/S DeSutter recommended
that the conference focus on new initiatives rather than old
disagreements. At the luncheon, A/DAS Semmel suggested that
the joint statement on nuclear energy and nuclear energy
security and cooperation in the July Bush-Putin Declaration
on Nuclear Energy and Non-Proliferation would provide a good
example of the kinds of common interests and shared benefits
the proposed symposium is seeking to highlight. Giannella
agreed to take all of these comments under consideration,
though she definitely ruled out the possibility of inviting
Cuba to the conference due to an outstanding arrest warrant
in Cuba against HR Solana.


14. (SBU) In separate courtesy calls with DCM Anna Borg and
Ambassador Spogli on September 10 and 14, A/S DeSutter
explained the objectives and constraints on the post-START
discussions and thanked Embassy Rome for hosting the talks
and Embassy staff for help and support. Speaking with the
Ambassador, A/S DeSutter suggested that Rome would make a
good venue for future talks if sufficient support can be
arranged. Noting the high level of Italian government and
press interest in the U.S.-Russian security dialogue,
Ambassador Spogli and DCM Borg both thanked DeSutter for
agreeing to meet with the Italian MFA and for taking
advantage of public diplomacy opportunities while in Rome.


15. (U) A/S DeSutter and A/DAS Semmel have cleared this
message.


16. (U) Minimize Considered.

BORG