BOUCHER AND VICE CHIEF DISCUSS NEW STEPS IN THE

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 05 ISLAMABAD 002796

SIPDIS

NOFORN
SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/22/2017
TAGS: AF MOPS PGOV PK PREL PTER
SUBJECT: BOUCHER AND VICE CHIEF DISCUSS NEW STEPS IN THE
TRIBAL AREAS

Classified By: Charge d'Affaires Peter W. Bodde. Reason: 1.4 (b),(d)


1. (C) Summary: While he demurred from speaking about
Pakistan's political situation, Vice Chief of the Army Staff
General Ahsan Saleem Hyat was eager to discuss a variety of
topics during his June 13 meeting with Assistant Secretary
for South and Central Asia Richard Boucher. Hyat reported
that Pakistan had completed its investigation into the May 14
Frontier Corps killing of a U.S. army officer. Pakistan was
convinced the incident was the work of a disgruntled soldier,
not part of a broader problem. He said Pakistan understood
the urgency of improving security in Mir Ali and would soon
establish checkpoints around the town. Pakistan was also
committed to expelling Arabs from the border areas, but
believed the action would be more permanent if it was
accomplished with the cooperation of the tribal residents.
Hyat seemed genuinely concerned about the rapid spread of
Talibanization through the Tribal Areas and the surrounding
settled areas. He reported that the National Security
Council had, on June 11, established a new task force to
fight Talibanization. Hyat would be willing to consider
having the task force, which he chairs, coordinate
development and security efforts in the Tribal Areas. The
General spoke quite forcefully on the importance of
Afghanistan's turning over two accused Baloch insurgents
currently in Afghanistan. End Summary.


2. (C) On June 13, Assistant Secretary for South and Central
Asia Richard Boucher met with Pakistan's Vice Chief of the
Army Staff General Ahsan Saleem Hyat in the General's
Rawalpindi office. Also present from the Pakistani side were:
Director General for Military Intelligence Major General
Nadeem Ijaz Ahmed; Chief of the General Staff Lieutenant
General Salahuddin Satti; and Personal Secretary Brigadier
General Sajjad Ghani. Attending the meeting with Mr. Boucher
were Charge d'Affairs Peter Bodde, Major General James Helmly
of the Office of Defense Representative - Pakistan; Senior
Advisor Caitlin Hayden; and A/PolCouns(notetaker).


3. (C) Replying to an opening question from Boucher, General
Hyat said he preferred not to speak about politics or about
the mood of the military, particularly during the ongoing
controversy over the Chief Justice's suspension.

INVESTIGATION INTO KILLING OF U.S. OFFICER


4. (C) Hyat expressed regret over the May 14 Frontier Corps
troop shooting of a group of U.S. soldiers during a
Pakistan-Afghanistan-U.S. border flag meeting. The death of
one of the American officers was "most unfortunate"; Hyat was
personally saddened and embarrassed by the episode. The
Pakistan Military had investigated the assailant's personal
history, family, and the state of the Frontier Corps
generally. The military was convinced the incident was the
result of an individual disgruntled soldier, not part of any
kind of trend or broader problem. Hyat promised to pass a
copy of the full report to the International Security
Assistance Force and to Major General Helmly.


5. (C) Hyat noted that both the tribal population and the
Frontier Corps had condemned the shooting incident. The
event violated the Pashtun code, which demanded protection of
and hospitality for visitors. The Frontier Corps had existed
for over 150 years and had maintained a proud record and
tradition. It had paid a disproportionate price in lives and
casualties in the War on Terror. They were good troops who
did not in any way support such actions.


6. (C) Hyat said he had phoned International Security
Assistance Force Commander General McNeill some time after

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the incident and offered to work together on standard
operating procedures for security issues. According to Hyat,
during that conversation, McNeill told him the U.S. had faith
in the integrity of the Pakistanis' investigation.

CROSS BORDER FIGHTING


7. (C) Concerning the May 11 firing incidents between the
Pakistan Military and the Afghan National Army near Angor
Ada, Hyat claimed that part of the problem was that the
residents and soldiers on opposite sides of the border were
from rival tribes. Hyat had traveled to Kabul shortly after
the incident to inform the Afghan National Army that Pakistan
would place soldiers from a different tribe on the border; he
had asked the Afghan army to do the same.

MIR ALI


8. (C) Hyat acknowledged the United States' serious concerns
about the security situation inside the town of Mir Ali,
North Waziristan. He reported that the Pakistan Military
would soon establish checkpoints around the town. The army
was also examining what additional forces were needed near
Mir Ali.


9. (S/NF) Hyat understood the importance of acting quickly
against al Qaeda targets. "We know the issue is time
sensitive," he said.

TRIBAL LEADERS VS. FOREIGNERS


10. (C) Hyat stressed the importance of driving Arabs out of
the Tribal Areas one way or the other. That said, if the
task was accomplished with the cooperation of the local
people, the result would be more permanent. Hyat said that
his government was working with tribal leaders toward the
objective of the tribes forcing Arab foreigners to leave the
Tribal Areas. He personally believed considerable arm
twisting would be required to make this happen. The
government would find ways to support good leaders who were
helpful in the government's goals. The government was
competing against Arabs' ability to spread significant money
around, but money was not everything; honor also was
important. Hyat noted that, if conditions for Afghan
civilians improved, Pakistan's work with tribal leaders would
be easier.


11. (C) Hyat highlighted the need to avoid collateral damage.
Media coverage of such damage complicated the government's
tasks, not just in the Tribal Areas, but throughout Pakistan.

BORDER INCURSIONS


12. (C) According to Hyat, the portions of the
Pakistan-Afghanistan border opposite Regional Command-South
were relatively secure. He was pleased that Pakistan and
Afghanistan had agreed to work together to fight
narco-criminals and gun runners operating in Paracha, a town
straddling both sides of the border.


13. (C) According to Hyat, McNeill had reported to him an
increase in cross-border incursions into Afghanistan at three
geographic points, two of which were in the Waziristans.
Hyat said that the Pakistan Military had purchased an
Unmanned Aerial Vehicle from Germany. The Pakistan Military
hoped it would be beneficial in combating such incursions.


14. (C) Hyat noted that Pakistan's Special Forces required
enhanced training to deal with Afghan border issues.


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TALIBANIZATION


15. (C) Hyat seemed genuinely concerned over the situation in
the Tribal Areas and the settled areas around the Tribal
Areas. He cited recent examples of Talibanization in Tank
and Bannu as particularly worrisome. The Frontier
Constabulary, which was responsible for patrolling the area
separating the Tribal Areas from the settled areas, was
recalling units that had been seconded to areas like Karachi;
the additional troops would boost security in the Northwest.
Additionally, the Pakistan Military was providing equipment,
including tanks, Humvees, and artillery, to the Frontier
Corps to aid its fight against Taliban and other miscreants
inside the Tribal Areas. Pakistan was immediately raising an
additional two wings (about a thousand troops) of Frontier
Corpsmen. Hyat was anticipating some U.S. financial
assistance in establishing these new wings.

MORE ON THE FRONTIER CORPS


16. (C) Hyat reported Pakistan was hoping to raise eight new
wings of Frontier Corps troops as soon as possible (the two
previously mentioned plus six more) with a large proportion
of those troops coming from the Waziristans. (Note: A wing
includes about about 675 troops. End Note.) Besides needing
more personnel, the Frontier Corps needed to enhance its
capacity to fight enemies currently better equipped than the
Corps.


17. (C) Boucher noted the U.S. had committed to assisting
with the transformation of the Frontier Corps, but that our
estimate was that the transformation would take three to five
years. Hyat did not necessarily believe it would take that
long, and noted that many of the Pakistan Military's training
schools were located in the Northwest Frontier Province. He
believed utilizing those already-existing schools and
programs could speed the development of Frontier Corps
capacity.

PAKISTAN'S GOALS FOR THE TRIBAL AREAS


18. (C) Pakistan must "bring the tribal people into the 21st
century," according to Hyat. In order to do this, tribals
would need to receive a larger "stake" in the nation of
Pakistan. One part of that "stake" would be education. The
tribal people's enormous desire to educate their children
contrasted with the dearth of schools, especially quality
schools, in the border region. Quality government schools
would provide an attractive alternative to madrassahs --
something that would greatly benefit stability and security
in the area. Similarly, the provision of vocational
education was central to meeting Pakistan's goals in the
Tribal Areas.

CONCERNS ABOUT TALIBANIZATION FUELING NEW GOVERNMENT MEASURES


19. (C) Hyat reported that the National Security Council had,
on June 11, decided to form a task force to fight
Talibanization in the Tribal Areas and the adjacent settled
areas. Recruiting more Frontier Corps troops was necessary
to root out Talibanization, but it would take time to raise
such forces. Meanwhile, the committee was looking for
actions that could show an effect within two-three months.
He did not provide further details on what those actions
might be.


20. (C) Responding to the Charge's question about overall
coordination for Tribal Area development and security
enhancement, Hyat posited that the new task force, of which
he was chair, might be able to fill such a role. Noting that

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all military and civilian stakeholders were part of the task
force, he promised to consider the possibility of filling a
coordination role and then, if appropriate, discussing the
idea with the government.

BORDER SECURITY


21. (C) Hyat highlighted that 13-14 thousand vehicles legally
crossed the Pakistan-Afghanistan border each day, while over
45,000 people transited at various official border crossings.
Given the large numbers, differentiating between "good guys
and bad guys" was an enormous challenge. He had told Afghan
National Army General Bismullah Khan that the two armies
should jointly develop a border control plan that they could
present to their governments. According to Hyat, both
President Musharraf and Northwest Frontier Province Governor
Orakzai supported his idea of allowing the militaries to
cooperatively develop a proposal to be shared with civilian
authorities. Hyat said he had requested that General McNeill
support the Afghan Army in working on its part of the
proposal, since the Afghans would need capacity assistance in
the project.


22. (C) Assistant Secretary Boucher noted that it seemed
border challenges fell into two major categories: those
involving the flow of people and vehicles at official border
crossings; and those involving criminals and miscreants using
foot and donkey paths to cross the border. The U.S. would be
willing to assist Pakistan in dealing with both types of
challenges. He also acknowledged that, particularly in
working on the legal crossing points, Afghanistan's
cooperation would be important.

TRIPARTITE COMMISSION


23. (C) Hyat noted that Afghan National Army General
Bismullah Khan, General McNeill, and himself had met several
times in productive meetings. That said, he believed that
the broader Tripartite Commission, which included military
representatives, foreign ministry personnel, and other
civilians, should meet more often. He said that commission
meetings were essential for working on "nitty gritty details."

INDIA


24. (C) Hyat spoke of how much Pakistan would benefit from
peace with India. He noted that the current stability had
enabled Pakistan to redeploy two army brigades from Sialkot
and Lahore to the Afghan border. With permanent peace,
Pakistan would benefit both economically and in terms of
security.

BALOCHISTAN (AND WANTED BALOCH NATIONALISTS)


25. (C) Both Hyat and Nadeem complained vigorously over what
they described as Afghanistan's harboring two Baloch
terrorists in Afghanistan. Hyat said he had told General
Khan that such actions could "eviscerate" the bilateral
relationship. Nadeem claimed the two men were able to direct
terrorist operations from their remote locations. Hyat
stressed that Interpol had issued warrants for the two, and
that the evidence against the men was spelled out in the
warrants. He said that Afghanistan's complaints about
Pakistan's not doing enough to find terrorist leaders who
were trying to hide rang hollow when two wanted terrorists
were allowed to live in the open in Afghan cities.


26. (C) Hyat said that Pakistan, especially the army, had
"won over" most of the tribes of Balochistan by providing
economic development. Life for Balochistan's population had

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improved more in the last five years than in the previous 50.
He said that the government was negotiating with various
tribes and had sponsored local elections as a step toward
greater democracy. Nadeem said the government was converting
areas formerly under tribal remit to government authority.
Five years ago, only five of 35 districts were under
Balochistan police authority. Now, 25 are, with the rest soon
to be converted. This, he said, made life better for the
population, as they were no longer subject to the decrees of
tribal leaders sometimes interested only in protecting their
personal power.
BODDE