PRM A/S SAUERBREY MEETS WITH INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS IN

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 000288

SIPDIS

SENSITIVE
SIPDIS

STATE FOR EAP/MLS AND PRM, BANGKOK FOR REFUGEE COORDINATOR, GENEVA
FOR RMA

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PREL PHUM PREF KWMN SOCI VM CB
SUBJECT: PRM A/S SAUERBREY MEETS WITH INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS IN
HANOI

HANOI 00000288 001.2 OF 004


Summary
--------------


1. (SBU) On February 5, Assistant Secretary of State for Population,
Refugees and Migration Ellen Sauerbrey met separately with
representatives of UNHCR and the International Organization for
Migration (IOM) in Hanoi. In her UNHCR meeting, UNHCR officials
discussed in familiar terms the organization's activities in the
Central Highlands and its positive assessment of the situation
facing returnees. On the issue of a possible program to process
returnees for resettlement from Vietnam, UNHCR Deputy Regional
Representative Giuseppe de Vincentis opined that such a program
might encourage ethnic minorities to cross into Cambodia in order to
be deported back to Vietnam and have the opportunity to be resettled
in the United States. Any program would need very specific time or
other criteria to prevent this. PRM program officer Kathleen
Sheehan noted that an alternative to such a program would be to make
use of the Embassy in-country referral process for those individuals
who need resettlement consideration after they return to Vietnam.
De Vincentis also briefly discussed statelessness in Vietnam, as
well as the situation facing the Vietnamese Hmong in Thailand,
noting GVN trepidation about resettling the entire group to the
United States.


2. (SBU) IOM Chief of Mission Andrew Bruce assessed that GVN
anti-trafficking plans and other social programs are good, but the
ministries and agencies involved do not coordinate well and have
been slow to implement them. GVN capacity to deal with
trafficking-in-persons remains limited, but it has the potential for
broad outreach, and it generally welcomes international assistance
to address social problems. The Assistant Secretary also discussed
with IOM the issues of education in Vietnam, population policy,
prostitution and sex tourism. End Summary.

Returnees
--------------


3. (SBU) On February 5, PRM Assistant Secretary Ellen Sauerbrey met
with UNHCR Deputy Regional Representative Giuseppe de Vincentis and
UNHCR Vietnam Chief of Mission Vu Anh Son. The UNHCR officials
described for the A/S UNHCR's returnee monitoring activities, noting
that UNHCR has seen 80 percent of the returnees at least once. Most
of their efforts have focused on Gia Lai Province, where most of the
ethnic minority returnees reside. UNHCR assesses that Montagnard
Foundation head Kok Ksor's own Gia Lai provenance and ongoing
connections to the province are behind Gia Lai's prominence in this
area. UNHCR believes that most ethnic minorities crossed into
Cambodia not for religious or political reasons, but for other
reasons, such as "seeking a better life," de Vincentis said.


4. (SBU) Although UNHCR initially lacked access to the Central
Highlands, "there has been major progress," de Vincentis continued.
Whereas once a large official entourage traveled with the UNHCR
representatives, now private meetings are possible. There have been
no complaints from returnees about being singled out for
mistreatment, and a number of returnees have complained of
"monitoring fatigue," in which the stream of monitoring missions has
been disruptive and a distraction. That said, an EU mission to the
Central Highlands had found some indication of possible
mistreatment, but UNHCR attempts to follow up have been fruitless
because the individual in question has "disappeared," de Vincentis
said.


5. (SBU) In response to a question from PRM Program Officer Kathleen
Sheehan, de Vincentis said that there is precedence for the GVN's
informing UNHCR about returnee arrests. To date, two returnees have
been arrested (with one sentenced to jail and the other freed),and
the GVN notified UNHCR about both cases, granting access to the
individual who was convicted and jailed for human trafficking. On a
number of occasions, Human Rights Watch presented information on
returnees who were reportedly mistreated or jailed, but UNHCR, in
meeting directly with either the individuals concerned or their
families, never substantiated any of these allegations, the UNHCR
representative explained. In response to A/S Sauerbrey's question
about the problem of translation, particularly between English,
Vietnamese and the ethnic minority language, de Vincentis explained
that in every family, there are usually one or two individuals who
can speak Vietnamese, ensuring that the correct message gets
across.


6. (SBU) On the subject of microprojects, de Vincentis said that
progress in this area is another sign of Vietnamese openness.
Although local authorities were initially reluctant to allow a
foreign government-funded project in their district, now there are
more project proposals than available funding. As part of this, the
EU has agreed to fund a kindergarten. Describing her own visit to

HANOI 00000288 002.2 OF 004


the Central Highlands, A/S Sauerbrey noted that the village headman
whom she met seemed very interested in learning about how his former
village residents are faring in the United States and said that
those who were resettled can provide valuable remittances and, in
case they return, skills to their former places of residence.


7. (SBU) De Vincentis explained that there is not "a generalized
refugee producing situation" in the Central Highlands. Instead,
every individual has had a specific reason for crossing into
Cambodia, although these reasons do not usually equate to a refugee
claim. Before UNHCR was able to conduct monitoring missions in the
Central Highlands, the refugee recognition rate in Cambodia was 100
percent. Now, based on access to the region, information and a
better understanding of the situation on the ground, the rate has
fallen to around 15 percent. For those who have been rejected, they
have the ability to request an appeal. In the end, those who do not
appeal or fail their appeal either voluntarily return to Vietnam or
are forcibly returned (to date, approximately half of the returnees
were forcibly returned). UNHCR monitors both types of returnees,
and those who were forcibly returned tend to be more bitter, de
Vincentis explained. Nevertheless, UNHCR has detected no difference
in how these two types of returnees have been treated since they
came home.


8. (SBU) In response to A/S Sauerbrey's question about the effect of
a possible program in Vietnam to consider returnees for resettlement
in the United States, de Vincentis opined that such a program "might
encourage people to leave Vietnam just to get deported back in order
to take advantage of the resettlement opportunity." Such a program
would need specific time or other criteria to mitigate against this
happening. Unless a specific group within a specific timeframe were
targeted, it could be like "opening Pandora's box," de Vincentis
suggested. As an alternative, PRM program officer Sheehan
recommended greater use of the Embassy in-country referral system.
UNHCR confirmed that they would be happy to alert the U.S. Mission
to cases that should be referred via this system.

Statelessness
--------------


9. (SBU) Asked to discuss briefly the issue of statelessness in
Vietnam, de Vincentis said that, in the 1970's, approximately 9,000
Cambodians fled the Khmer Rouge and settled in southern Vietnam.
Since 1994, there has been little international interest in this
group and the GVN has made no effort to naturalize them. As a
result, they have no official status, making it difficult for them
to own property or otherwise function in Vietnam. To remedy this,
UNHCR has recently restarted its discussions with the GVN on this
matter. The other group facing the problem of statelessness is made
up of Vietnamese women who marry Chinese or Taiwanese men, give up
their Vietnamese citizenship and, before they gain Chinese or
Taiwanese citizenship, divorce their husbands and return to Vietnam.
UNHCR has also been working with the GVN and some in the
international community to address this problem, de Vincentis
explained. A/S Sauerbrey indicated that PRM is very interested in
the statelessness issue and is ready to work with all concerned
parties to solve this problem.

Vietnamese Hmong
--------------


10. (SBU) De Vincentis described for A/S Sauerbrey the state of play
of the Vietnamese Hmong currently in Thailand. Although the RTG had
initially sought to deport the 42 Hmong back to Vietnam, UNHCR
worked with both the Thais and Vietnamese to prevent this and allow
UNHCR to resettle them (and their families, totaling 68 people).
The GVN had expressed concern about the entire group's resettlement
in the United States, but reluctantly accepted UNHCR's explanation
that, for expediency's sake, U.S. resettlement was the best course
of action. Nonetheless, GVN trepidation about the possible "pull
factor" of this resettlement remains. De Vincentis said that the
GVN will allow UNHCR to conduct a mission to Lao Cai Province (in
the northwest) to learn more about why and how this group left
Vietnam.

Implementation of Anti-trafficking and Refugee Programs
--------------


11. (SBU) Also on February 5, A/S Sauerbrey met separately with
Andrew Bruce, IOM Chief of Mission in Vietnam. Responding to the
Assistant Secretary's question about whether there are gaps in the
GVN's anti-trafficking plans, Bruce stated that the "Action Plan is
good," but the GVN's efforts to operationalize it is problematic.
Another problem for the Plan's implementation is coordination with
neighboring countries. For example, the Ministry of Public Security
(MPS) has responsibility for coordination on the Vietnamese side,

HANOI 00000288 003.2 OF 004


whereas the Cambodian Women's Union is responsible on its side of
the border, which has led to a significant cultural clash, Bruce
explained.


12. (SBU) The Assistant Secretary asked if there are any regular
coordination meetings for all actors in the GVN concerned with
refugee and trafficking issues. IOM staff replied that there have
not been any to date; however, international NGOs and other
organizations have been coordinating better in the last few years.
Bruce noted that Vietnam's police culture -- in which it is not
customary to work with other agencies -- makes coordination
cumbersome. Indeed, the Vietnamese police are used to controlling
an issue rather than consulting on one. However, the new senior
colonel in charge of the trafficking issue for the police has shown
promising signs that he may be willing consult more, Bruce noted.

IOM's Position in Vietnam
--------------


13. (SBU) Responding to A/S Sauerbrey's question about whether IOM
is a welcome presence in Vietnam, IOM staff stated that the GVN
seems to really appreciate international help in the TIP fight.
Over the last three years, even the MPS has become a good
interlocutor on the issue. The DCM noted that there is a clear GVN
policy to bring together people and agencies to fight trafficking,
but international actors need to continue to chip away at the
Vietnamese police culture of resisting consultation with other
Vietnamese and foreign actors.

Education
--------------


14. (SBU) On the subject of education in Vietnam, IOM staff stated
that Vietnamese primary schools are divided into two sections --
morning and afternoon -- and most children attend school until age
11 to explain the children A/S Sauerbrey saw on the streets in the
Central Highlands. Only seven or eight percent of school-age
children do not attend primary school, and most who do not attend
are either disabled children or ethnic minority children from
remote, impoverished regions. However, fewer children attend
secondary school in Vietnam because there are added fees for
schoolbooks and other expenses that reduce parents' inclination to
send their children to school. Literacy remains over 90 percent
because of compulsory education; however, those without secondary
education are only functionally literate, the IOM staff added.


15. (SBU) IOM COM Bruce noted that access to education is also an
internal migration issue because internal migrants often have lower
priority for social services compared to registered residents. For
example, there are an estimated 70,000 migrants living in Ho Chi
Minh City (HCMC). Fortunately, Bruce noted, HCMC is now the only
place in Vietnam where - by local regulation -- education and social
services are not dependent on residency.

Social Issues and Population Policy
--------------


16. (SBU) The Assistant Secretary asked whether the GVN's two-child
policy is coercive. IOM staff stated that it is very hard for the
GVN to get a handle on population policy. Until recently, they did
exhort citizens to limit families to two children; however, this
policy was not coercive, although there were theoretical economic
penalties for having more than two children. Enforcement of the
two-child policy is largely confined to visits by "government
collaborators" to advise families with two children to resist the
inclination to have more. The collaborators (who are usually
elderly local residents) encourage the couple to use contraception.
Single parents or adolescents are not considered under this
population program, IOM staff added.


17. (SBU) IOM staff said that the GVN mostly relaxed the two-child
policy three or four years ago, but, despite this, there are
relatively few large families in the north because of the long
history of population education. There are many large families (up
to eight children) in the south, however. Official population
growth rose to 2.3 percent from 2.11 percent in the last year, which
has concerned some officials. It is not known if this rise is the
result of the GVN's relaxed policy or whether it is an artifact of a
new statistical method, IOM staff said. Lack of data is a major
problem, Bruce added.

GVN Laws against Prostitution
--------------


18. (SBU) On the subject of legal action against prostitution, IOM
Staff stated that prostitution falls under the GVN'S "social evils"

HANOI 00000288 004.2 OF 004


laws, which in theory make prostitutes (along with drug users) the
victims of criminals and not criminals themselves. However, this
has led to the common perception of prostitutes as "social evils" in
and of themselves, especially because of the GVN's extensive
campaign to stigmatize social evils and because prostitution is "not
valued culturally." About three years ago the GVN also criminalized
the legal status of pimps and brothel owners. However, despite some
occasional police raids of large brothels, there have been few
prosecutions, as the laws only changed the way brothels operated.
One reason is that prostitutes working at massage parlors and
karaoke bars now quickly leave with their male clients and engage in
sex away from their establishments. There is little enforcement of
the laws against sex clients because many "johns" are government
officials and prominent businessmen, IOM staff said.


19. (SBU) In theory, women who are arrested as prostitutes are sent
for rehabilitation to the GVN's "05" centers for six months (or two
years if HIV positive),IOM staff continued. However, it is not
clear how often this is enforced. In HCMC and Hanoi, there are
intermediate detention centers where a decision is made whether to
detain women in the "05" centers. Non-resident women are more
likely to be incarcerated than locals. There has not been a
concerted effort to identify arrested prostitutes who have been
trafficked internally, and most don't appear to have been
trafficked, although there is anecdotal evidence that such
trafficking exists, IOM added.

Sex Tourism
--------------


20. (SBU) The Assistant Secretary asked if there have been any
instances of AmCit sex tourism in Vietnam. The DCM noted that there
are several cases of pedophilia involving American citizens under
investigation, but the numbers are low (although they may be rising
since the RTG began cracking down on pedophiles). Bruce noted that
there is a significant problem with Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese
sex tourism in Vietnam. IOM staff noted, however, that Vietnam's
requirement that all tourists staying in hotels register their
passports may be a reason that pedophiles have stayed away from
Vietnam, particularly since Laos and Cambodia have looser
registration requirements. Unfortunately, many short-stay hotels in
Vietnam are geared towards prostitution and do not require
registration. It is only a matter of time before word gets out that
pedophiles do not need to register to have sex with children, IOM
staff lamented.

Vietnamese Capacity
--------------


21. (SBU) The Assistant Secretary noted that the Vietnam Women's
Union of Quang Ninh Province gave her an impressive briefing on
February 4 in Halong City, but asked if the Union is really able to
replicate its anti-trafficking programs in other Vietnamese
communities. IOM staff responded that the GVN has not really
addressed the issue of trafficking until recently, so the capacity
of organizations like the Women's Union to enact programs remains
low. That said, the Women's Union is a national organization and
therefore has a broad network and a broad potential for outreach.


22. (SBU) Assistant Secretary Sauerbrey has cleared this message.

ALOISI