PKK: FOLLOW UP ON KARTAL

S E C R E T BRUSSELS 003505

SIPDIS


C O R R E C T E D C O P Y (ADDED SIPDIS CAPTION)


SIPDIS
NOFORN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/14/2017
TAGS: PREL PTER BE
SUBJECT: PKK: FOLLOW UP ON KARTAL

REF: STATE 164892

Classified By: POLCOUNS TED ANDREWS. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).


1. (S/NF) Poloff discussed reftel points with Andre
Ceulemans, the Foreign Ministry's Deputy Political Director
and Adviser for Counterterrorism Issues, requesting a
clarification of Remzi Kartal's status in Belgium. Poloff
indicated the issue had become important because of
contradictory information received from two Belgian agencies.
While the Belgian Interior Ministry told Embassy last year
that Kartal had only permanent residency status in Belgium
and was not a political refugee, the Foreign Ministry had
recently said the opposite. Ceulemans said Kartal is a
political refugee and has had political asylum in Belgium
since April 1995. He said Kartal was among several former
Kurdish parliamentarians who fled Turkey in the 1990s and
received asylum in Europe because of perceived persecution in
Turkey. When questioned, Ceulemans said he did not know why
the Interior Ministry provided erroneous information, except
certain elements within Interior may have had "sensitivities"
regarding providing information on political refugees.
(Comment: Ceulemans seemed embarrassed at the disconnect
between the Interior and Foreign Ministries. He asked
Embassy not to relay the MFA's "clarification" on Kartal's
status to our contacts within Interior. End comment.)


2. (S/NF) Ceulemans said he did not know if Kartal provided
false or incomplete information when applying for asylum --
at the time of application, the Interior Ministry would have
assumed his information was true. If Kartal provided false
or incomplete information on material issues, Ceulemans
thought that could be grounds for a re-consideration of his
status.


3. (S/NF) Ceulemans equivocated a bit when asked whether
Kartal's leadership role in a designated terrorist group
would affect his status now or when it is up for renewal. He
said certain activities could affect one's refugee status but
"that is not the case here" as far as he could see.
Ceulemans said while the PKK was listed on European sanctions
lists for purposes of freezing PKK assets, "it does not mean
the PKK is considered a terrorist organization" throughout
Europe.


4. (S/NF) He said Belgian authorities want information to
bring cases against the PKK, especially evidence that
members, including Kartal, are involved in criminal activity.
As far as he knew, there were no pending investigations or
criminal charges against Kartal (note: Embassy's LEGATT has
been granted a briefing soon on Kartal's file from the
Belgian Federal Police). Even with an Interpol warrant,
Belgian officials need concrete information from countries,
especially Turkey, to pursue investigations and cases.
Ceulemans reiterated Belgium's ongoing request that the U.S.
urge Turkey to provide better, more detailed information that
would hold up in Belgian courts. He indicated Belgium had
also made the request to Ankara. Ceulemans said respect for
due process and human rights was a major issue: "we cannot
bring people to justice on flimsy evidence." Ceulemans said
Belgium would act if it saw evidence of PKK criminality or
training camps.


5. (S/NF) Comment: Despite an increase in coordination among
Belgian Ministries over the past couple of years, there
remains at times a disconnect on key issues, which hopefully
will be ironed out through such mechanisms as the recently
operational OCAM (the "Coordinating Body for Threat
Analysis"). OCAM, fashioned to operate like our National
Counter Terrorism Center, aims to facilitate the exchange of
information among all governmental counterterrorism bodies
and make a common threat analysis on the basis of such
information exchanges.


6. (S/NF) Some elements of the Belgian government have a
tendency to put PKK activities in the "political speech"
camp. This is particularly true in Flanders, where some see
the Kurds as a fellow small nation striving to gain a
national identity. Ceulemans, for example, pointed out there
is a perception that the PKK "does not want difficulties in
Belgium." It preferred to use Belgium as a political base to
lobby international groups, and, thus, members refrained from
obvious criminal activity (he acknowledged that extortion of
local Kurds likely existed but cases could not be brought
without community assistance). Despite the "political
speech" rhetoric, the Belgians have consistently indicated a
willingness to pursue cases against PKK members if they can
present evidence of illegal activity that will hold up in
court. End comment.

FOX
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