Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
07BERLIN497
2007-03-12 08:12:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Berlin
Cable title:
TERRORIST FINANCE: GERMANY ON CASH COURIERS
how-toVZCZCXRO2230 PP RUEHDBU RUEHFL RUEHKW RUEHLA RUEHROV RUEHSR DE RUEHRL #0497 0710812 ZNY CCCCC ZZH P 120812Z MAR 07 FM AMEMBASSY BERLIN TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 7442 INFO RUEHZL/EUROPEAN POLITICAL COLLECTIVE PRIORITY RUCNFRG/FRG COLLECTIVE PRIORITY RUEHOT/AMEMBASSY OTTAWA PRIORITY 0977 RUEHMO/AMEMBASSY MOSCOW PRIORITY 1720 RUEHKO/AMEMBASSY TOKYO PRIORITY 1396 RUEAWJA/DEPT OF JUSTICE WASHDC PRIORITY RUEATRS/DEPT OF TREASURY WASHDC PRIORITY RUCNFB/DIRFBI WASHDC PRIORITY RUEAHLC/DEPT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WASHDC PRIORITY RUEFHLC/HOMELAND SECURITY CENTER WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
C O N F I D E N T I A L BERLIN 000497
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/05/2017
TAGS: EFIN ETTC KTFN PTER GM
SUBJECT: TERRORIST FINANCE: GERMANY ON CASH COURIERS
REF: A. STATE 16120
B. BERLIN 321
Classified By: Minister-Counselor for Economic Affairs Robert F. Cekuta
for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
C O N F I D E N T I A L BERLIN 000497
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/05/2017
TAGS: EFIN ETTC KTFN PTER GM
SUBJECT: TERRORIST FINANCE: GERMANY ON CASH COURIERS
REF: A. STATE 16120
B. BERLIN 321
Classified By: Minister-Counselor for Economic Affairs Robert F. Cekuta
for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
1. (SBU) Emboffs delivered demarche (ref A) to the German
Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Finance, and the Interior.
The MFA recalled the previous (G-8) discussion on the issue,
stated Germany does not object to the U.S. proposal, and said
the G-8 Lyon-Roma Group should be able to address the issue
as long as it does not conflict with other efforts. The
Finance Ministry official said he did not see an issue with
cash couriers and stated that those trading with Iran use
barter and clearinghouses in the Gulf states to settle
payments.
2. (C) MFA Counterterrorism DG Busso von Alvensleben told
EMIN Germany does not object to the U.S. proposal made in the
G-8 Lyon/Roma Anti-Crime and Terrorism Group (ref B). Von
Alvensleben asserted Germany is only looking to avoid
duplication with FATF and the Egmont Group of Financial
Intelligence Units. Von Alvensleben said as chair in the G-8
Lyon-Roma process Germany wants to avoid setting up another
working group and avoid bringing in new groups of experts
(e.g., from Finance Ministries). He suggested the U.S.
proposal should concentrate on those aspects of the fight
against cash smuggling appropriately addressed by the
agencies represented at the Lyon-Roma. EMIN pushed back
noting our governments need to engage all the expertise and
resources at their disposal if we are to be successful in
combating terrorism.
3. (C) Reacting to the points in the demarche, Finance
Ministry Office Director for Money Laundering, Terrorism
Finance, and Financial Crimes Michael Findeisen told Global
Affairs Officer it is "an illusion" that large scale cash
smuggling is occurring. There are too many logistical
problems in conveying large amounts of cash, he asserted; the
volumes of cash that would have to be shipped are too great.
Further, there are machines at airports that detect the thin
metal strips in modern bills, Findeisen said, and flights to
"sensitive areas" are subject to extra screening. He asked
for "hard facts" to substantiate U.S. concerns. He admitted
that states such as North Korea and others under sanctions
might resort to cash couriers, but, as for Iran and the
possibility of cash payments for shipments relevant to Iran's
nuclear program, Findeisen said "export credits to Iran are
in the billions" making cash smuggling unlikely. Instead,
Findeisen claimed, Iranian businesses use barter and
settlement clearinghouses based in the Gulf states to
reconcile their accounts with European trade partners, as
they have done for decades: "I send you oil, you send me ten
Mercedes" Findeisen said.
4. (SBU) Global Affairs Officer also presented the demarche
to Interior Ministry Counterterrorism Finance officer Astrid
Rosbeck, who said that her Ministry did not have a
substantive reaction at this time.
TIMKEN JR
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/05/2017
TAGS: EFIN ETTC KTFN PTER GM
SUBJECT: TERRORIST FINANCE: GERMANY ON CASH COURIERS
REF: A. STATE 16120
B. BERLIN 321
Classified By: Minister-Counselor for Economic Affairs Robert F. Cekuta
for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)
1. (SBU) Emboffs delivered demarche (ref A) to the German
Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Finance, and the Interior.
The MFA recalled the previous (G-8) discussion on the issue,
stated Germany does not object to the U.S. proposal, and said
the G-8 Lyon-Roma Group should be able to address the issue
as long as it does not conflict with other efforts. The
Finance Ministry official said he did not see an issue with
cash couriers and stated that those trading with Iran use
barter and clearinghouses in the Gulf states to settle
payments.
2. (C) MFA Counterterrorism DG Busso von Alvensleben told
EMIN Germany does not object to the U.S. proposal made in the
G-8 Lyon/Roma Anti-Crime and Terrorism Group (ref B). Von
Alvensleben asserted Germany is only looking to avoid
duplication with FATF and the Egmont Group of Financial
Intelligence Units. Von Alvensleben said as chair in the G-8
Lyon-Roma process Germany wants to avoid setting up another
working group and avoid bringing in new groups of experts
(e.g., from Finance Ministries). He suggested the U.S.
proposal should concentrate on those aspects of the fight
against cash smuggling appropriately addressed by the
agencies represented at the Lyon-Roma. EMIN pushed back
noting our governments need to engage all the expertise and
resources at their disposal if we are to be successful in
combating terrorism.
3. (C) Reacting to the points in the demarche, Finance
Ministry Office Director for Money Laundering, Terrorism
Finance, and Financial Crimes Michael Findeisen told Global
Affairs Officer it is "an illusion" that large scale cash
smuggling is occurring. There are too many logistical
problems in conveying large amounts of cash, he asserted; the
volumes of cash that would have to be shipped are too great.
Further, there are machines at airports that detect the thin
metal strips in modern bills, Findeisen said, and flights to
"sensitive areas" are subject to extra screening. He asked
for "hard facts" to substantiate U.S. concerns. He admitted
that states such as North Korea and others under sanctions
might resort to cash couriers, but, as for Iran and the
possibility of cash payments for shipments relevant to Iran's
nuclear program, Findeisen said "export credits to Iran are
in the billions" making cash smuggling unlikely. Instead,
Findeisen claimed, Iranian businesses use barter and
settlement clearinghouses based in the Gulf states to
reconcile their accounts with European trade partners, as
they have done for decades: "I send you oil, you send me ten
Mercedes" Findeisen said.
4. (SBU) Global Affairs Officer also presented the demarche
to Interior Ministry Counterterrorism Finance officer Astrid
Rosbeck, who said that her Ministry did not have a
substantive reaction at this time.
TIMKEN JR