NSA HADLEY'S MEETING WITH GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTER

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BERLIN 000457

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/05/2017
TAGS: PGOV PREL PTER KJUS AF LE IZ SR RS GM
SUBJECT: NSA HADLEY'S MEETING WITH GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTER
SCHAEUBLE


Classified By: Minister-Counselor for Economic Affairs Robert F. Cekuta
for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)


1. (C) Summary. Interior Minister Schaeuble told National
Security Advisor Hadley February 23 Germany and the U.S. need
to share information to combat terrorism, but the European
Parliament is concerned about civil liberties. Schaeuble
sought U.S. agreement for a U.S.-EU-Russia trilateral meeting
separate from the May G-8 Justice and Home Affairs
Ministerial. The National Security Advisor Hadley also
stressed the need for data sharing to combat terrorism and
noted the President's proposal to modernize the Visa Waiver
Program (VWP). NSA Hadley emphasized the need for confidence
that Iran was not resupplying forces in Lebanon via Syria.
Schaeuble responded the objective was not possible without
Syrian agreement. (Note: MOI staff separately briefed NSA
Hadley's delegation on the upcoming Passenger Name Records
(PNR) negotiations and Ministry's efforts in Iraq,
Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Lebanon. End Note.) End Summary.

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DATA SHARING
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2. (C) German Interior Minister Schaeuble told NSA Hadley
Germany wants to achieve results during its EU Presidency and
hoped for progress in the PNR negotiations and on data
protection agreements. However, the EU Parliament, concerned
about civil liberties, needs to approve the agreements. They
feel strongly about data protection. He emphasized that
Europe needs a PNR agreement. The terrorist threat is not
over, Schaeuble continued; the U.S. and Germany had
cooperated well last August in connection with the British
threat on the prohibition on liquids in aircraft and the two
sides need to share information. The threat to civil
aviation is not over. NSA Hadley agreed on the need for
information sharing and highlighted the President's proposal
to enhance the security requirements of the VWP. In this way
the door could be opened to all EU member states, NSA Hadley
said however, the U.S. would not ask EU states to comply with
security requirements that the U.S. was not prepared to meet.
Threats are global and we need to eliminate barriers to
cooperation, NSA Hadley stated.

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LEBANON
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3. (C) Turning to Lebanon, NSA Hadley said we all need to
have confidence that Iran was not rearming forces in Lebanon
through Syria. In the past there was a UNSC resolution
(1559) which was not enforced, a situation which had led to
war. Now there is a new UNSC resolution and again it is not
being enforced. If the international community did not find
a way to stop Iranian efforts to resupply, Israel would find
a way, NSA Hadley said, and there could be another war.
Schaeuble responded that the task is impossible without the
agreement of Syria and that EU High Rep Solana needed to be
brought into the discussion. Schaeuble and NSA Hadley agreed
there had been "too many voices" speaking to Syria; NSA
Hadley agreed Solana should be the "quarterback" for the EU.

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U.S.-EU-RUSSIA TRILATERAL
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4. (C) Schaeuble said that he desires a U.S.-EU-Russia
trilateral and that he knew the U.S. prefers a meeting of
interior and justice ministers on the margins of the May G-8
ministerial. Schaeuble argued that for the meeting to have
impact it needs to stand on its own. NSA Hadley said
cooperation with Russia is important even though it is
sometimes difficult as recent events had shown. He said he
would discuss the issue with DHS Secretary Chertoff and
Attorney General Gonzales.

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SIDEBAR TOPICS: PNR, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Lebanon
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5. (C) German delegation members briefed NSC Senior Director

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for European Affairs Judy Ansley and other NSC members on the
following:

-- On PNR, German lead negotiator Deputy DG for Police
Affairs Hans-Juergen Foerster reported the EU had agreed to
his mandate only the day before (January 22); it included
"strict directives" and "caveats and reservations" from the
26 other EU member states. State Secretary August Hanning
said there is a huge gap between the two sides; negotiations
would be "very difficult." Ansley pointed out the two sides
have the same goals but different systems; if we did not
share information, we could not achieve our goals. She added
that the U.S. has legal requirements to collect this data.
Hanning responded the EU Parliament is very dedicated to data
protection; each side had to accept the other's system. The
best solution would be to extend the existing agreement,
Hanning elaborated, because both sides wanted to amend the
agreement but in different directions. Ansley said DHS views
the current agreement as very limiting and not acceptable for
the long-term.

-- On Iraq, Hanning and Office Director for International
Police Cooperation and Training Juergen Werner explained
German engagement bilaterally and via the EU JUSTLEX training
program. On the former, Hanning referred to his January 22
meeting with visiting Iraqi Foreign Minister Zebari. Zebari
seeks German police training in northern Iraq, which Germany
accepted in principle during earlier conversations with the
Iraqi Deputy PM however, Germany is only prepared to proceed
upon agreement of all parties. Werner claimed the Iraqi
Interior Ministry, dominated by the Shia, requests training
only in Europe -- not in Iraq, and not even in the UAE where
Germany has conducted training in the past. On the
multilateral training, Werner said the German Federal Office
of Criminal Investigation (BKA) is currently training 40
Iraqi police officers in Wiesbaden. The EU had trained 900
Iraqi justice and law enforcement officers in the last two
years, Werner said, but Hanning added it is difficult to
determine where they have gone and what their jobs now are.
Germany needs feedback on its previous training, Hanning said.

-- On Afghanistan, Werner described the ESDP Afghan training
program to begin in June, which Germany seeks to lead.
Germany now had 40 staff in Afghanistan, but Germany hoped
the ESDP number would be 160 plus 80 support and advisory
staff. In response to Ansley's question, Werner clarified
the ESDP mission would do more than regroup the current
disparate EU member state initiatives in Afghanistan, it
would add significant new manpower and include other
countries, including non-EU member states like Canada, New
Zealand and Norway, under one chain of command. Germany
would send 30 more officers, including some from its military
police who would be under civilian police command. Beginning
in PRTs led by EU member states, the program would expand to
U.S.-led PRTs. Hanning emphasized the goal is to reach the
entire country, but there are problems cooperating with the
judicial system: "we catch people then we are not sure what
to do with them."

-- On Kosovo, Deputy DG for Police Deployments/Border Issues
and Inspector of the Federal Police Udo Burkholder said
Germany has 200 police officers stationed there, where the EU
was taking over responsibility from the UN. Ansley commented
that during the transition process, there might be a need for
more police, a subject the U.S. wants to discuss with the EU.
Burkholder said there are many German police who volunteer
to go to Kosovo and so Germany could send more.

-- On Lebanon, Burkholder said the German team of five
Federal (former border) Police and three Customs officers had
assessed Lebanese efforts and completed their report, which
Germany was prepared to share with the U.S. although it had
not yet shared it with its EU partners. The report proposes
"Integrated Border Management" because currently various
Lebanese agencies have responsibility, leading to different
authorities "doing their own thing." Lebanese military and
civilian agencies are not working together, Burkholder said.
The German proposal is one agency or one "point of
responsibility," and a plan of how to set up, manage, and
equip such an integrated border protection agency. Hanning
mentioned in early March he would travel to Lebanon where he

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would push for a border pilot project on Lebanon's northern
border with Syria. Hanning added that as far as he was
aware, the German naval mission had performed well and there
were no reports of weapons smuggling by sea. But the land
border was harder to protect.


10. (U) NSC staff cleared this cable subsequent to the
delegation's departure.
KOENIG