HOLY SEE'S CHINA ENVOY: RECENT TRIP A SUCCESS

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 VATICAN 000185

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 9/1/2016
TAGS: PREL PHUM VT CH
SUBJECT: HOLY SEE'S CHINA ENVOY: RECENT TRIP A SUCCESS

REF: (A) VATICAN 0155 (b) Vatican 057

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CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i.,
EXEC, State.
REASON: 1.4 (d)


1. (C) Summary. Archbishop Celli, the Vatican's unofficial
envoy to China, told Ambassador his July visit to China had a
positive outcome and he hoped for a return visit later this
year. Celli does not foresee any change in the overall
situation for Catholics in China, but does think talks with the
GOC may lead eventually to a tacit agreement. He described the
complexities facing the Holy See in its efforts to deal with
both the Chinese government and with the Catholic community on
the mainland and in Hong Kong. Celli said that while Chinese
Catholics are in a cage, the cage is getting bigger. He
described the recent illicit ordination of two bishops as
retaliation for the elevation of Cardinal Zen, whom China
resents. Celli encouraged US pressure on China in the area of
religious freedom, but caution regarding the Holy See-China
relationship. End summary.


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Positive Outcome
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2. (C) Ambassador and DCM called on Archbishop Claudio Maria
Celli on September 1 to discuss Celli's recent visit to China.


Celli said that his July visit to China was positive on the
whole, especially in three areas:

-- Beijing had opened the doors to a serious Holy See delegation
for the first time since 2000. (Celli acknowledged that there
had been other visits to China by Holy See figures, but did not
consider them to be of the same level of importance.)


-- He had been allowed (at his request) to visit Shandong
province, including the cities of Qingdao, Jinan, and Qufu,
birthplace of Confucius (Celli commented that while foreign
religions such as Christianity are seen as threats, the
authorities are now endorsing Confucianism and Buddhism). While
it was not a completely free visit, said Celli, his escorts had
a light touch. The visit was confidential, which precluded
visits to churches or bishops. However, there was one
unscheduled stop at an empty cathedral.


-- Celli is cautiously optimistic that he will be invited for
another visit to China before the end of this year, and hopes to
visit another province at that time.



3. (C) In the following discussion, Celli observed that the
atmosphere of his visit was cordial throughout, lacking any
calculated toughness from Chinese officials. (Celli had talks,
inter alia, with the Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs and with
the Director of the Religious Affairs Bureau.) Nevertheless the
situation is not easy, and it will certainly take time to
resolve the critical ecclesiastical issue -- the question of who
decides what bishops and priests can do, or as Celli put it,
"the vision of church life".


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The Cage is Getting Bigger
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4. (C) Celli foresees no short-term change in the situation in
China for Catholics. Using a familiar metaphor (ref b),said
that Catholics in China remain in a cage, but we can see a
gradual increase in the size of the cage. China is simply not
in a position to grant the kinds of liberty the Holy See seeks,
but things are slowly improving. For its part, the Holy See
must, and will, continue to press China further. Celli stressed
that China is genuinely worried about losing control. He
suggested that a tacit agreement might be reached in time
between China and the Holy See, though nothing may be openly
acknowledged.



5. (C) Celli said that while economic development had produced
astonishing results in China, the majority continues to live not
merely in poverty, but in misery. Privately, Chinese officials
can be remarkably candid about this, and Celli believes the GOC
understands the true state of affairs, but cannot yet escape its
own ideological boundaries -- even though few believe in
communism anymore. (One senior official, who was able to
converse with Celli in French, was strikingly different when
speaking in that language and when speaking in Chinese in the

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presence of other officials.)


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Zen As Provocation
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6. (C) China dislikes Cardinal Zen, and its illicit ordination
of two bishops earlier this year was a clear act of retaliation
for Zen's elevation to cardinal. Hardliners in the government
-- intending to derail Rome-Beijing rapprochement -- probably
engineered the ordinations without informing their superiors,
who might well have blocked them but who subsequently had to go
along to save face. Hardliners exist on both sides; some in the
Chinese underground church bitterly oppose any talks with the
government. This "underground Taliban" even encouraged detained
clerics to stay in detention and become martyrs.



7. (C) Celli noted that when word leaked out from Hong Kong
about his visit, and journalists began to inquire, the Chinese
authorities simply denied knowledge. The Holy See, more
ethically constrained, felt obliged to say simply "no comment".
Celli said that members of the Hong Kong Catholic community were
"talking too much".


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Release of Bishop An
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8. (C) Celli said the Holy See had learned that Bishop Francis
An Shuxin of Baoding, who was recently released after many years
of secret detention, had in fact been in informal and relatively
loose confinement in a residence for at least the past two
years, during which time he had been granted visits by priests.
The Holy See had earlier heard rumors about Bishop An's
whereabouts and safety, but could never be sure of their
accuracy. Similarly, there are rumors about other clergymen
still in unacknowledged detention, but the actual status of the
detained is not known. Celli said that conditions for detained
clerics are not necessarily harsh, but the detentions are wrong
-- especially when, as sometimes happens, elderly men are held
away from home and familiar medical care.


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US Role -- Push, But Recognize Limits
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9. (C) Celli acknowledged the firm support of President Bush and
the United States for religious freedom in China, and feels this
is very helpful. However, any specific mention of China-Holy
See relations serves primarily as an irritant, since the Chinese
regard this as interference in their internal affairs. In
short, said Celli, please push, but at the same time be
conscious of China's limits; don't look for pears on an apple
tree.



10. (C) Celli said he had met Bishop Hu of Beijing. The two
were accompanied by three very attentive escorts who took
copious notes. This seemed unnecessary, said Celli, since
everything Hu said was essentially identical to the government
line. Hu may have had little choice; the larger point for Celli
is that while the Catholic identity of older Chinese clerics can
be taken for granted, that of younger Chinese priests is
questionable, as the degree of their spiritual formation cannot
be known.


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Bio Note
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11. (SBU) Celli opened by noting his upcoming trip to the United
States, where he will visit Washington DC, Philadelphia,
Memphis, and Fairfield CT among other stops -- meeting old
friends like Cardinals McCarrick and Rigali, and George Weigel,
and leading a retreat. The retreat will be for a group called
Centesimus Annus (the title of a 1991 encyclical of Pope John
Paul II, commemorating the centennial of Pope Leo XIII's
influential encyclical Rerum Novarum) which is dedicated to the
study and promotion of Catholic social teaching. Celli, in
offering to give the embassy some documents related to an
earlier meeting this summer which discussed world financial
problems, commented that Cardinal Bertone, in his recent remarks
on international financial institutions and usurious practices,
was perhaps speaking a bit too much off the cuff.


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Comment
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12. (C) We once again found Celli an acute interlocutor. His
overall assessment of conditions for Chinese Catholics is hardly
rosy, but his confidence in Beijing's openness to dialogue is
encouraging. Celli's optimism stands in contrast to the
downbeat views of the foreign minister, with whom we spoke
shortly after the visit (ref a). We will be alert for any signs
of a return visit later this year.



13. (C) Celli's comments about the overly talkative Hong Kong
community may refer to Cardinal Zen himself, who spoke openly
about the July visit at the time, and is known for his direct
manner and independence. Celli effectively conveyed the
complexity of the Holy See's relationship with China: the
machinations of hardliners on both sides, bureacratic
maneuverings and face-saving compulsions, secret meetings made
embarrassingly public by one's own side, officials who say one
thing in private and something completely different in public,
etc.



14. (C) Celli's remarks about the US role echo what we've heard
from the Foreign Ministry, and dovetail with the Holy See's own
dilemma in pushing the Chinese to grant more freedoms while
acknowledging that a fearful Chinese leadership may itself not
be able to grant such freedoms for now. In speaking about the
release of Bishop An, Celli did not seem to attach special
significance to it.
ROONEY