Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
06VATICAN155
2006-07-31 12:10:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Vatican
Cable title:
HOLY SEE: FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS "NO PROGRESS" IN RELATIONS
how-toVZCZCXRO5688 RR RUEHCN RUEHGH RUEHVC DE RUEHROV #0155 2121210 ZNY CCCCC ZZH R 311210Z JUL 06 FM AMEMBASSY VATICAN TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 0429 INFO RUEHOO/CHINA POSTS COLLECTIVE RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN 0457
C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000155
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/31/2016
TAGS: PREL VT CH
SUBJECT: HOLY SEE: FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS "NO PROGRESS" IN RELATIONS
WITH CHINA (C-AL6-01115)
REF: VATICAN 123
CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i.,
EXEC, State.
REASON: 1.4 (d)
C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000155
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/31/2016
TAGS: PREL VT CH
SUBJECT: HOLY SEE: FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS "NO PROGRESS" IN RELATIONS
WITH CHINA (C-AL6-01115)
REF: VATICAN 123
CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i.,
EXEC, State.
REASON: 1.4 (d)
1. (C) Summary. Vatican FM-equivalent told charge July 28 that
Celli's recent trip to China had ended without any progress in
Holy See-PRC relations. It is not clear whether China will
proceed with further illicit ordinations of bishops. The Holy
See will probably send another envoy to China by the end of this
year; China has asked for a cardinal but this will occur only if
that envoy is given access to Hu Jintao. The Holy See remains
convinced that Hu wants an improvement in relations but
officials below him are blocking progress. The Vatican is
grateful for past USG assistance with China but thinks it better
to proceed on its own, in a low-key way. End summary.
2. (C) Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo (Vatican foreign minister
equivalent) confirmed to Charge July 28 that Archbishop Claudio
Maria Celli (accompanied by Monsignor Gianfranco Rota-Graziosi)
had indeed been to Beijing for talks earlier in July, as was
widely reported. Lajolo said there had been no progress at all.
Things got so bad that at one point Celli told the Chinese
that, the way things were going, he had no choice but to pack
his bags and leave. He stayed, but found the Chinese to be
unwilling to budge. Celli had a somewhat better meeting with
the Vice Foreign Minister (the same one, said Lajolo, who came
to Rome last year); afterwards other Chinese officials told him
to forget what they had said and remember only what the Vice
Foreign Minister had said.
3. (C) Lajolo said the Chinese told ("threatened") Celli that
since China's Catholic community urgently needed 20 new bishops,
the authorities would have to go ahead with some further
(illicit) ordinations; Lajolo said only "we'll see". He
emphasized that the Holy See wants nothing to do with the
so-called Patriotic Association.
4. (C) In response to a question, Lajolo said that Cardinal Ivan
Dias was just getting started at the Propaganda Fide dicastery
-- which is responsible for evangelization in non-Christian
areas -- but in that context would certainly also play a role
regarding China. Propaganda Fide has the lead on questions of
acceptable bishops; some potential Chinese candidates, said
Lajolo, would indeed be acceptable.
5. (C) Lajolo said the Holy See believes that Premier Hu Jintao
wants, and is ready for, improvement with the Holy See, but
below his level there's significant resistance. China has asked
the Vatican in the past to send a cardinal to visit; the Holy
See preference is to do so only if that cardinal would be able
to meet Hu, and hear from his own lips China's policy. Lajolo
said nevertheless that another Vatican visit to China was likely
by the end of this year, but perhaps by Cardinal Etchegaray or
someone else (rather than Celli). Lajolo said that while the
Holy See has appreciated past USG help in China, that help has
in fact irritated the Chinese; thus, he said, the Holy See would
prefer to work directly with China in a low-profile way for the
time being.
6. (C) Comment: The Holy See has preferred to keep the Celli
channel quiet; deputy PM Parolin disavowed knowledge of it to us
just prior to the trip itself, and wide public speculation about
Celli's trip was never officially acknowledged by the Vatican.
Lajolo's implication that the next envoy will be someone else
may reflect a feeling that Celli has become too high profile.
It may also be convenient to send the retired Etchegaray, in a
role he's performed before, since any visit could be clothed in
an innocent purpose such as observing an important anniversary
or attending an exhibition. That would also lessen any
expectations about the outcome. As far as progress in the
relationship itself, we hope that China will not in fact proceed
with any further ordinations, as each such episode would be a
provocation to the Holy See.
SANDROLINI
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/31/2016
TAGS: PREL VT CH
SUBJECT: HOLY SEE: FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS "NO PROGRESS" IN RELATIONS
WITH CHINA (C-AL6-01115)
REF: VATICAN 123
CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i.,
EXEC, State.
REASON: 1.4 (d)
1. (C) Summary. Vatican FM-equivalent told charge July 28 that
Celli's recent trip to China had ended without any progress in
Holy See-PRC relations. It is not clear whether China will
proceed with further illicit ordinations of bishops. The Holy
See will probably send another envoy to China by the end of this
year; China has asked for a cardinal but this will occur only if
that envoy is given access to Hu Jintao. The Holy See remains
convinced that Hu wants an improvement in relations but
officials below him are blocking progress. The Vatican is
grateful for past USG assistance with China but thinks it better
to proceed on its own, in a low-key way. End summary.
2. (C) Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo (Vatican foreign minister
equivalent) confirmed to Charge July 28 that Archbishop Claudio
Maria Celli (accompanied by Monsignor Gianfranco Rota-Graziosi)
had indeed been to Beijing for talks earlier in July, as was
widely reported. Lajolo said there had been no progress at all.
Things got so bad that at one point Celli told the Chinese
that, the way things were going, he had no choice but to pack
his bags and leave. He stayed, but found the Chinese to be
unwilling to budge. Celli had a somewhat better meeting with
the Vice Foreign Minister (the same one, said Lajolo, who came
to Rome last year); afterwards other Chinese officials told him
to forget what they had said and remember only what the Vice
Foreign Minister had said.
3. (C) Lajolo said the Chinese told ("threatened") Celli that
since China's Catholic community urgently needed 20 new bishops,
the authorities would have to go ahead with some further
(illicit) ordinations; Lajolo said only "we'll see". He
emphasized that the Holy See wants nothing to do with the
so-called Patriotic Association.
4. (C) In response to a question, Lajolo said that Cardinal Ivan
Dias was just getting started at the Propaganda Fide dicastery
-- which is responsible for evangelization in non-Christian
areas -- but in that context would certainly also play a role
regarding China. Propaganda Fide has the lead on questions of
acceptable bishops; some potential Chinese candidates, said
Lajolo, would indeed be acceptable.
5. (C) Lajolo said the Holy See believes that Premier Hu Jintao
wants, and is ready for, improvement with the Holy See, but
below his level there's significant resistance. China has asked
the Vatican in the past to send a cardinal to visit; the Holy
See preference is to do so only if that cardinal would be able
to meet Hu, and hear from his own lips China's policy. Lajolo
said nevertheless that another Vatican visit to China was likely
by the end of this year, but perhaps by Cardinal Etchegaray or
someone else (rather than Celli). Lajolo said that while the
Holy See has appreciated past USG help in China, that help has
in fact irritated the Chinese; thus, he said, the Holy See would
prefer to work directly with China in a low-profile way for the
time being.
6. (C) Comment: The Holy See has preferred to keep the Celli
channel quiet; deputy PM Parolin disavowed knowledge of it to us
just prior to the trip itself, and wide public speculation about
Celli's trip was never officially acknowledged by the Vatican.
Lajolo's implication that the next envoy will be someone else
may reflect a feeling that Celli has become too high profile.
It may also be convenient to send the retired Etchegaray, in a
role he's performed before, since any visit could be clothed in
an innocent purpose such as observing an important anniversary
or attending an exhibition. That would also lessen any
expectations about the outcome. As far as progress in the
relationship itself, we hope that China will not in fact proceed
with any further ordinations, as each such episode would be a
provocation to the Holy See.
SANDROLINI