THE DEPUTY SECRETARY'S MEETING WITH TUNISIAN

C O N F I D E N T I A L TUNIS 001254

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

STATE FOR NEA/MAG (WLAWRENCE),D (JOST),DRL, NEA/PI

E.O. 12958: DECL: 05/21/2016
TAGS: PREL PGOV PHUM KMPI KDEM TS
SUBJECT: THE DEPUTY SECRETARY'S MEETING WITH TUNISIAN
PRESIDENT ZINE EL ABIDINE BEN ALI

REF: TUNIS 730

Classified By: Ambassador William Hudson, for reasons 1.4 b and d


1. (U) May 19, 2006; 10:00 A.M.; CARTHAGE, TUNISIA.


2. (U) Participants:

U.S.
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The Deputy Secretary
Ambassador William Hudson

TUNISIA
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President Zine el Abidine Ben Ali
Abdelaziz Ben Dhia, Minister of State, Special Advisor to the
President of the Republic
Ossama Romdhani, Official Spokesman of the Presidency of the
Republic


3. (C) Summary: In a May 19 meeting with Deputy Secretary
Zoellick, Tunisian President Ben Ali said that Tunisia's
reform process will continue, and that "all our means are
devoted to human development." Although he characterized the
US-Tunisian relationship as "excellent" he accused the USG of
bias in interpreting Tunisia's human rights record. He said
USG criticism of human rights in Tunisia "cast a small
shadow" on the relationship, marking the first time Ben Ali
has been so direct in regards to difficulties in our
relationship. Deputy Secretary Zoellick said that as a
friend we want to listen to Tunisia's perspective and that we
should have a broad spectrum bilateral dialogue, incuding
both political and economic topics. The Deputy Secretary and
President Ben Ali also discussed counter-terrorism
cooperation and a potential role for Tunisia in a UN
peacekeeping mission in Sudan. End Summary.

President Defends Tunisia's Human Rights Record
-------------- --


4. (C) President Ben Ali opened by saying that Tunisia and
the U.S. enjoyed "excellent relations." However, he said, he
perceived a bias on the part of the U.S. in interpreting
Tunisia's human rights record. He said, "we believe in a
comprehensive approach to human rights," and criticized the
Embassy for not associating with the right contacts on human
rights issues in Tunisia. Ben Ali noted that when compared
to Morocco and Algeria, Tunisia is "doing well" on human
rights.


5. (C) Ben Ali said that Tunisia is committed to freedom of
expression. He said that opposition press in Tunisia is very
critical of the GOT, however the GOT has not seized their
publications and has even provided funding. (NOTE: Opposition
newspaper al-Mawkif, the most openly GOT-critical paper in
Tunisia, has in the past occasionally been seized, and
receives no GOT funding. END NOTE.) Ben Ali stated that "no
one is jailed for their views in Tunisia", and that US
criticism is seldom based on the real facts in a case. He
said, "Tunisia has no political prisoners, and all prisoners
are criminals." Noting that the case of jailed
lawyer/activist Mohammed Abbou (Ref A) had been raised during
the Deputy Secretary's meeting at the MFA (septel),Ben Ali
said he "had not been aware of the case", and learned about
it from the papers. He claimed that Abbou was jailed for
assault of a colleague and said the GOT would follow the rule
of law for all its citizens: "The law must be applied to all
and cannot be tailored based on views or the position of
individuals." He concluded that while the bilateral
relationship is "outstanding" with all the help Tunisia has
given on Palestine and Libya, some issues cause a "small
shadow" on our relationship. "When the Department of State
takes a position, it has a lot of credibility in the world,
and therefore it is obligated to look at all positions and
facts.

Political Reform
--------------


6. (C) The Deputy Secretary noted the extraordinary
accomplishments that have been made in Tunisia, particularly
in the area of education, and in spreading these
accomplishments throughout the country. He continued that
although Tunisia has struggled with radical Islam, as the
country moves forward, Tunisian citizens would look for a
more open political environment. The Deputy Secretary added,
"if people cannot participate in a legitimate system of

political debate, they often become disaffected and turn to
radical Islam." He continued, saying we hoped that the GOT
would create opportunities for dialogue with NGOs and the
press, noting that for U.S.-Tunisian relations to have fuller
expression, we need to enhance our dialogue. In this
context, the Deputy Secretary mentioned allowing IRI to
operate in Tunisia as a way to show more broadened political
participation which would not threaten security.


7. (C) The Deputy Secretary said that it is important to
always have the facts, and that is why we want to deepen our
dialogue. He said it is the USG perspective that the GOT
legal system is "over reactive". He noted that the GOT has a
good story and should let its people participate in the
political process. He then used as an example the
consultative process on Tunisia's ten-year economic program
which was described by Development and International
Cooperation Minister Jouini (septel),saying it was an
excellent idea and might be useful as a model for the
political realm. The Deputy Secretary said we have seen
movements of democracy in Eastern Europe and Asia, that these
movements would continue and he hoped Tunisia could
participate. Ben Ali responded that the reform process will
continue, and the GOT asked for some understanding during the
process as "all our means are devoted to human developments
-- mistakes should not be used to criticize the entire
system". The Deputy Secretary concluded that he greatly
respects what Tunisia has accomplished. "We must listen to
our friends and learn their perspective -- that is why I
suggest we restart a high-level dialogue, incorporating the
economic sphere as well."

Counter-terrorism
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8. (C) Ben Ali said that Tunisia has long taken a strong
position on terrorism and that the U.S. and Tunisia have had
great bilateral cooperation on terrorism issues. He said:
"History, particularly events in Iraq, Egypt and Palestine,
has vindicated our approach." The Deputy Secretary said he
hoped we could deepen our cooperation on counter terrorism.

Sudan
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9. (C) Turning to Sudan, the Deputy Secretary noted that as a
member of the Arab League and African Union, Tunisia is well
placed to help Sudan create a better future for its people
and to follow through on the recent accords. The Deputy
Secretary mentioned that he hoped there would be a UN

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peacekeeping operation in Sudan and hoped that the GOT could
participate. Ben Ali responded that Tunisia "is following up
on Sudan in the Arab League." He said that Chad was playing
a negative role. He commented that Tunisian forces have
participated in peacekeeping operations in the past and "are
always willing." (COMMENT: The GOT traditionally only
participates in UN peacekeeping, and will probably follow the
Arab League position on this.)


10. (U) The Deputy Secretary's party has cleared this cable.
HUDSON