FOURTH ROUND OF USG-ROKG CONSULTATIONS ON NORTH

C O N F I D E N T I A L SEOUL 001774

SIPDIS

SIPDIS


MOSCOW FOR REFCOORD TIM RICHARDSON
GENEVA FOR RMA IKE REED

C O R R E C T E D C O P Y - ADDRESSEE ADDED/CORRECTED TEXT
PARA 1

E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/18/2015
TAGS: PREL PREF PHUM KS KN
SUBJECT: FOURTH ROUND OF USG-ROKG CONSULTATIONS ON NORTH
KOREAN ASYLUM SEEKERS

REF: STATE 84650

Classified By: POL M/C Joseph Y. Yun. Reasons 1.4 (b),(d).

SUMMARY
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1. (C) Summary: DG Nam Gwan-pyo opened the 4th round of
USG-ROKG consultations on North Korean asylum seekers on
May 25 by commending the U.S. government on its endeavors
to make the resettlement of North Korean asylum seekers in
the U.S. possible, and saying that this consultation provides
an opportunity to look at the implications of what has occurred.
DG Nam observed that the case of the six North Koreans that
were processed for U.S. resettlement in Bangkok had proceeded
mostly according to plan, but that the ROK was surprised at
the manner in which the case had arisen and concerned about
NGOs publicizing the role the ROKG played in the process.
Nam noted that there has been a significant increase in the
number of North Korean asylum seekers crossing into Thailand
and Mongolia during the last month.


2. (C) Nam concurred with the U.S. assessment that the
incident involving the U.S. Consulate in Shenyang is an
exceptional case, but worried about the implications for the
ROK's own program for North Korean asylum seekers. Asked
about how it will handle cases of North Korean asylum seekers
in ROK facilities who "change their mind" and indicate
interest in U.S. resettlement, Nam said that, while
respecting North Koreans' free will to choose where they wish
to be resettled, once that decision has been exercised and
North Koreans are under the ROK's care, the ROKG cannot under
its legal system assist North Koreans in going to a country
other than the ROK. The U.S. delegation raised the case of
the three North Koreans that approached ConGen Vladivostok on
May 24; the ROK reported that it had no information about
being contacted by these individuals, but would check with
its Consulate in Vladivostok. The U.S. delegation noted the
need for the U.S. to consider resettling North Korean asylum
seekers from Mongolia, and that the USG planned to work with
the ROKG on a contingency plan for handling cases that might
arise there. DOS and DHS representatives responded to ROK
concerns about granting asylum in the U.S. to North Koreans
who have been resettled in the ROK. DG Nam said the ROK hopes
to continue these consultations on these important issues.
End Summary.


3. (C) An interagency delegation composed of representatives
from EAP, PRM, L, DHS, and Embassy met with an ROKG
interagency delegation for the fourth round of USG-ROKG
consultations on North Korean asylum seekers. (Note:
Delegation list in para 17. End Note.) Both sides agreed
that this round, unlike previous rounds, was not a
negotiation, but an opportunity to reaffirm previous
agreements, exchange views on recent events and discuss
implications for future trends and cooperation. Director
General for Policy Planning Nam Gwan-pyo opened the
discussions by commending the U.S. government on its
endeavors to make the resettlement of North Korean asylum
seekers in the U.S. possible. EAP Senior Advisor Steven
McGann thanked the ROK for its efforts to help the U.S.
understand this issue and the ROK's own process, and to help
us find a way to assist North Korean asylum seekers in a way
that complements the ROK's own process. McGann emphasized
the need to maintain the framework that we have agreed upon
for ROK assistance in U.S. processing for North Korean asylum
seekers in Thailand and in cases of unauthorized entrants at
U.S. diplomatic facilities.
.
Bangkok Six: Lessons Learned and Implications
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4. (C) PRM Director of Admissions Terry Rusch reported that
the processing of the Bangkok Six had gone mostly as we had
envisioned, with the exception of the timing of involving
UNHCR. In future cases, the U.S. would immediately involve
UNHCR in order to ensure protection of the asylum seekers and
to correspond to our mutual understanding of the manner in
which cases would be presented. DG Nam concurred that the









case had proceeded mostly according to plan, but reported
that the ROK was surprised that the case had arisen by asylum
seekers presenting themselves at the U.S. Embassy, rather
than being referred from Thai detention facilities as
envisioned in the U.S. operational plan. DG Nam expressed
concern that this precedent could lead to a large number of
North Koreans approaching U.S. missions in a similar manner,
and noted with concern press reports that have said the U.S.
could accept from 200-1,000 North Korean refugees this year.
Nam fears that such numbers could undermine the ROK's own
program for resettling North Korean asylum seekers. Nam
noted that the U.S. process was much faster than the ROK's
own process for resettling North Koreans from Thailand (18
days vs. 3 months),which may further encourage North Koreans
to approach U.S. missions.


5. (C) Nam expressed concern that Pastor Chun Ki-won, who
had assisted these six asylum seekers in reaching U.S.
Embassy Bangkok, has recently publicized the ROKG's role and
methods in interviewing these asylum seekers to determine
their nationality. Director Kim Ki-woong noted that this is
the first time the ROK's procedures for confirming North
Korean identity have been publicly revealed, and worried
about the security implications of this revelation. The ROK
appreciated, however, that the USG has been careful not to
publicize this case. Nam noted that there has been a
significant increase in the number of North Korean asylum
seekers crossing into Thailand and Mongolia during the last
month, and said the ROKG is looking into the cause for this
rapid increase. The ROK is closely monitoring host
government's reactions. To date, Thailand has continued to
say it is willing to provide the necessary cooperation for
the ROK to discreetly process North Korean asylum seekers on
a case by case basis, Nam said. A recent press report on the
detention of North Korean asylum seekers by the RTG does not
signal a change in the way the RTG handles such cases, but
Nam worries that the RTG is publicizing this process as a
warning to other North Koreans.

Russia and Mongolia Cases
--------------


6. (C) Rusch informed the ROK that the U.S. Consulate in
Vladivostok was approached by three North Koreans seeking
asylum on May 24. The ROK was unaware of any contact between
these North Koreans and its consulate in Vladivostok, but
would confirm with its consulate. Rusch delivered Reftel
points on ROK assistance to the U.S. on these cases.
Director Kim asked under what conditions the U.S. might
reject individuals that the ROK has confirmed are legitimate
North Koreans. DHS Joe Olivares reported that, in addition
to meeting the definition of a refugee based on a
well-founded fear of persecution, factors such as criminal
activity or persecution of others could bar asylum seekers
from admission to the U.S. Director Kim confirmed that
rejection by the U.S. refugee program would not affect the
ROK's consideration of North Korean asylum seekers that
express their free will to resettle in the ROK. If UNHCR
confirms the individuals are interested in U.S. resettlement,
the ROK would assist in accordance with the previously agreed
framework, Kim reported.


7. (C) Kim reported that Russia has not been very
forthcoming in its approach to North Korean asylum seekers.
When the ROK is approached by North Korean asylum seekers in
Russia, the ROK: confirms that they are North Korean;
arranges for a religious or NGO group to provide shelter; and
refers the case to UNHCR. It is a violation of ROK law to
refuse to assist North Korean asylum seekers that approach
the ROKG, Nam said. That said, DG Nam reported that, because
of the difficulties in facilitating the transfer of North
Koreans from Russia to the ROK, the ROK does advise some
North Koreans to proceed to Mongolia, if possible. While
Russia is comparatively safe for North Koreans, just two
weeks ago Russia deported a North Korean, the first such case
since 2002. Nam indicated that the ROKG is investigating
what prompted the GOR to take this action.


8. (C) The U.S. delegation noted the need for the U.S. to

consider resettling North Korean asylum seekers from
Mongolia, and that the USG planned to work with the ROKG on a
contingency plan for handling cases that might arise there.
The process for dealing with North Korean asylum seekers in
Mongolia is very different, Director Kim explained. If North
Koreans are captured crossing the border, they are detained
temporarily at the border while the GOM contacts the ROK
Embassy. They are then transported to a shelter in
Ulaanbaatar, where the ROKG begins its processing. All
arrangements are made directly between the ROKG and GOM, and
no international organizations are involved in the process.
After completing the process, the North Koreans are
transported directly to the ROK, Kim reported. Mongolia
treats these cases very sensitively, and has never announced
that it accepts refugees, Kim stated.

ROK Assistance on North Korean Walk-Ins
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9. (C) McGann turned to the recent case of the four North
Koreans that entered ConGen Shenyang, and reported that the
U.S. sees this as an exceptional case. The U.S. has not
changed its position that unauthorized entry into U.S.
diplomatic facilities will not further, and may undermine,
claims for asylum and resettlement in the U.S. The U.S. will
continue to seek ROK assistance on North Korean walk-ins in
accordance with previously agreed modalities, McGann said.
DG Nam reaffirmed the previously agreed framework for
handling these situations.


10. (C) DG Nam agreed with the U.S. assessment that the
situation in Shenyang is an exceptional case, and stated that
it is a regrettable situation that has put both the U.S. and
ROK in difficult positions vis a vis the Chinese. Nam said
that he understands the situation is basically being handled
by the U.S. in consultation with the Chinese, but the ROK
will consider any requests for "behind the scenes" assistance
it may receive from the U.S. The ROK Consulate in Shenyang
has increased its security to try to prevent another such
event, and the situation there seems to have calmed, Nam
reported. Rusch asked if the ROK would consider any of these
individuals forresettlement in the ROK if they were found
inadmissible for U.S. resettlement; Nam said that this is an
exceptional case because of the manner in which the North
Koreans escaped the Consulate, but if any are denied U.S.
resettlement and express a renewed interest in the ROK, the
ROK would consider applications from those North Koreans
"from scratch."
.
North Koreans Under ROK Protection
--------------


11. (C) Nam opined that, in the wake of recent events, some
North Koreans under ROK care in its diplomatic facilities
have expressed an interest in U.S. resettlement. Nam said
dealing with this situation is a "difficult question," as the
ROK's basic policy is to respect the free will of asylum
seekers but North Koreans' status under the ROK's legal
system is that they are ROK citizens whom the ROK is
obligated to assist. After explaining these two positions,
Nam noted that the ROK does not oppose the free will of
asylum seekers to be resettled in third countries, but cannot
assist North Koreans in resettling elsewhere, as that would
be perceived as neglecting its legal obligations. Once North
Korean asylum seekers have expressed their free will and are
under the ROK's protection in the resettlement process, these
individuals should be excluded from consideration for
resettlement elsewhere. The ROK is explaining to North
Koreans in its care that it cannot assist them in approaching
a U.S. mission in search of U.S. resettlement.

Assisting North Koreans in China
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12. (C) PRM Melissa Pitotti reported that we hope that the
PRC will follow-through on its commitment to send a
delegation to Geneva to discuss China's international
obligations with UNHCR. DG Nam repeated the ROK's position
that a trilateral with the USG, ROKG and UNHCR is not

desirable, as this could unnecessarily provoke China by
giving the appearance of "ganging-up" on it. The ROK
continues to press the PRC at every opportunity and at all
levels to expedite the transit of North Koreans in ROK
diplomatic facilities. While the ROK would like to protest
China's mistreatment of North Koreans, the ROK fears that
speaking-out on this issue could provoke Chinese crack-downs
on NGOs and North Koreans.


13. (C) Pitotti said the ROK continues to explore ways to
provide assistance to North Koreans outside the DPRK, and has
expanded assistance to North Koreans through international
organizations. While the U.S. recognizes ROK concerns about
funding NGOs, the U.S. has been approached by several NGOs
that claim to meet U.S. criteria, Pitotti reported. Ms. Cho
repeated ROK concerns about the problems with determining
which NGOs may be reliable, and urged the U.S. to continue to
work through international organizations. DG Nam addressed
the ROK's position on UNHCR's proposal to create a
"humanitarian space" in Northeast China, saying that while
the ROK has no objection to it, the Chinese are not likely to
agree to this proposal. It may be best to target assistance
to North Koreans in Mongolia or Southeast Asia, Nam commented.

ROK Protests U.S. Asylum for Resettled North Koreans
-------------- --------------


14. (C) Attorney Advisor Frank Gaffney addressed the ROK's
concerns about the recent decision of an immigration judge to
grant U.S. asylum to a North Korean who had been resettled in
the ROK. Gaffney explained that while the U.S. cannot
guarantee that another such decision would not be made by an
immigration judge, the Department of State has been closely
consulting with DHS to emphasize the importance of carefully
tracking these cases and considering appeal of future such
cases. The USG's interpretation of the North Korea Human
Rights Act is that it does not apply to North Koreans that
have "availed themselves" of the benefit of ROK citizenship,
and DHS has issued guidance to its asylum officers explaining
that interpretation, Gaffney reported. The State Department
understands the ROK's concerns about this issue, and will
continue to carefully track the situation.


15. (C) Director Hahn commented that the U.S. and ROK have
cooperated closely on the issue of North Korean refugees, and
believes that the U.S. should be able to share more
information with the ROK on the particular reasons for the
decision in the LA case. Hahn asked about guidance to DHS
officers that said North Koreans that had been resettled in
the ROK should be considered both North and South Korean
nationals; Gaffney reported that he is unaware of that
guidance, but would look into it. DHS Olivares responded to
Hahn's question about firm resettlement, informing him that
this issue is indeed considered in asylum proceedings.


16. (C) DG Nam thanked the U.S. delegation for the helpful
discussion of many urgent issues, which has provided a deeper
understanding of the situation. Nam said the ROK will
continue to cooperate with the U.S. on this issue "from
behind the curtain," and hopes to continue these
consultations on this important issue.
.

17. (U) Participants
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ROK:
NAM Gwan-pyo, Director-General for Policy Planning
KIM Ki-woong, Director for Inter-Korean Policy Division
HAHN Choon-hee, Director for North American Division I
PARK Ji-hyun, First Secretary, Inter-Korean Policy Division
LEE Byeong-do, First Secretary, North America Division I
LEE Kwang-suk, Second Secretary, North-east Asia Division II
CHO Hyung-hwa, Second Secretary, Human Rights and Social
Affairs Division
CHP Yong-sik, Deputy Director, Ministry of Unification
LEE Si-youn, Program Officer

USG:
Steven McGann, Senior Advisor EAP





Terry Rusch, Admissions Director PRM
Frank Gaffney, Attorney Advisor L
Laura Rosenberger, Foreign Affairs Officer EAP/K (notetaker)
Melissa Pitotti, Program Officer PRM
Jose Olivares, DHS Attache, Embassy Seoul
Jim Wayman, Poloff, Embassy Seoul
Andrew Bennett, PolOff, Embassy Seoul
VERSHBOW