RUBERWA ACCOUNT OF MAY MEETING WITH UGANDA

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 KINSHASA 000876

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/03/2016
TAGS: PREL PGOV UG CG
SUBJECT: RUBERWA ACCOUNT OF MAY MEETING WITH UGANDA
PRESIDENT MUSEVENI


Classified By: Ambassador Roger Meece. Reason 1.4 (b/d)


1. (C) Summary: Vice President Ruberwa told the Ambassador
that he had a frank but useful exchange in a long meeting
with Ugandan President Museveni in Kampala on the margins of
the latter's inauguration. Ruberwa said he told Museveni
that the GDRC is concerned over continuing reports of Ugandan
support for Ituri District militias, unilateral threats to
send the UPDF back to the Congo, a recent incursion of UPDF
in northern DRC, and the status of rebel militia leaders
being held in Uganda. Ruberwa's account suggested something
less than a meeting of the minds, but Ruberwa said it is
useful to raise these issues periodically with Museveni to
help preclude an open confrontation between Kinshasa and
Kampala. Ruberwa will urge his colleagues in the GDRC
Transition Government to send a senior level representative
(not necessarily Ruberwa) to Kampala roughly every three
months for a similar discussion. End summary.


2. (C) During a May 24 meeting with Vice President Azarias
Ruberwa, the Ambassador asked Ruberwa about his trip to
Kampala for the inauguration of Ugandan President Museveni,
and the reported long meeting between the two. Speaking from
memory, Ruberwa provided an extensive read-out, noting by way
of preamble that Museveni is a "complicated" person, and
often difficult to read. Later in the conversation,
referring to a Museveni denial of support to militias in the
DRC, Ruberwa reiterated that he found it difficult to judge
exactly what he should believe from Museveni, and what he
should question.


3. (C) Ruberwa said that he presented Museveni very frankly
four major GDRC concerns. These were continuing reports of
arms or other support provided to illegal militias operating
in DRC,s northeastern Ituri District; negative reactions to
Museveni's public threats to send UDPF forces unilaterally
into the DRC in pursuit of LRA troops; further concerns about
a recent account of UPDF troops inside Congolese territory;
and lastly GDRC questions regarding Ugandan intentions
regarding six Congolese Revolutionary Movement (MRC) rebel
chiefs currently held by Ugandan authorities.


4. (C) According to Ruberwa, Museveni flatly denied that
there is continuing Kampala support of Congolese militia
groups. Ruberwa said that Museveni added that the last
support Uganda had provided to armed groups in the Congo was
that given to Jean-Pierre Bemba's MLC, and to combatants
associated with Mbusa Nyamwisi. Ruberwa observed that Mbusa
was next to him in the same meeting, but did not respond to
the Museveni comment. (Note: Mbusa is currently GDRC
Regional Affairs Minister under terms of the 2003 Sun City
Accord which established the Transition Government. End
note).


5. (C) Ruberwa said Museveni did not respond directly to the
concerns about threats to re-enter the DRC, but did say that
it was not Ugandan policy to have troops in the DRC. He did
not, however, deny the account of UPDF troops found in
northeastern DRC (comment: presumably implying the incident
was a mistake). Ruberwa said Museveni did comment that the
DRC harbors "terrorists", a presumed reference to LRA units
reportedly now camped in Garamba National Park on the Sudan
border, and possibly as well to Ugandan ADF/NALU rebels who
have been attacked by MONUC/GDRC troops in North Kivu
province. Ruberwa also observed that Museveni has apparently
not repeated any public threats of UPDF troops going to the
Congo since the Museveni/Ruberwa meeting.


6. (C) Speaking of the six detained MRC rebel leaders,
Museveni reportedly told Ruberwa that Uganda could not
extradite these individuals to the DRC, as there is no
bilateral extradition treaty between the two countries.
Ruberwa, a lawyer, said he did not see the necessity of a
treaty; an agreement between the two governments for return
of the six should be sufficient. Ruberwa said Museveni
raised the possibility of sending the detained leaders to a
third country, possibly France. Ruberwa said he pointed out
that at least some of the detainees are on a Security Council
list, and he doubts any other country would want them.
Museveni also reportedly commented that he might free at
least one of the six, as Museveni was not convinced he was
guilty, or at least a significant figure. Ruberwa said he
strongly discouraged any such action. He said he asked
Museveni that if extradition is too difficult, why not
prosecute the MRC leaders in Uganda under Ugandan law, for
example arms violations, since Museveni had already

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acknowledged that the MRC leaders had been found with arms.
Per Ruberwa, Museveni seemed discomfited by the question,
agreed that this was an interesting suggestion and asked
another official present to follow up on the idea.


7. (C) Ruberwa also said in the course of the conversation,
Museveni questioned why the DRC had arrested another Ituri
militia figure, Thomas Lubanga, and transferred him to the
International Criminal Court (ICC). Ruberwa said he
presented the facts, including the DRC,s interest in
cooperating with the ICC, but Museveni was not convinced of
the merits of the action.


8. (C) Ruberwa commented that the exchange was useful even if
there were many points of disagreement. He said he could not
accept all of Museveni's observations. Ruberwa noted, for
example, that if all the detained MRC leaders were found with
weapons, all inside Ugandan territory, it seemed logical to
assume these weapons would find their way to Ituri, in
apparent contradiction to Museveni's assertions that there
are no further arms flows from Uganda to support Congolese
armed groups. In any event, Ruberwa asserted it is good
periodically to point out to Museveni that the Congolese are
aware of what is going on. The Ambassador asked if Museveni
did not know that already. Ruberwa said "maybe," but it
seems useful to make it clear. Ruberwa added he believes it
important for Kinshasa to send a senior-level person to
Kampala to have an exchange with Museveni perhaps every three
months to help avoid a major clash between the two
governments. He said he would encourage his GDRC colleagues,
notably President Kabila, to do exactly that. He added
neither Bemba nor Mbusa, former allies of Kampala, would be
good choices, but it did not have to be Ruberwa himself who
went.


9. (C) Comment: Ruberwa's account of the meeting suggested
few areas of agreement with Museveni. Ruberwa the lawyer,
however, did not appear angry or upset, speaking in measured
tones as he might of an opposing lawyer in a court action
with whom he disagreed. He did not appear overly concerned
about the possibility of imminent clashes between Uganda and
the DRC. Other elements of the Ruberwa meeting will be
covered septel. End comment.
MEECE