SUDAN: HASSAN AL-TURABI MEETS COMMISSION FOR

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 KHARTOUM 000212

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SUBJECT: SUDAN: HASSAN AL-TURABI MEETS COMMISSION FOR
INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM


1. (SBU) Summary: The U.S. Commission for International
Religious Freedom met with People's Congress Party (PCP)
Secretary General Hassan al-Turabi at his home on January

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18. Turabi said worship should be free of state control,
but freedom of religion is shaped by society, not just the
state. Responding to the Commissioner's questions on
terrorism, Turabi criticized the United States and the West
for their lack of understanding of Islam and for supporting
Arab dictators and Israel, which make Osama bin Laden's
message appealing to Muslims. He cited the National
Congress Party's centralized and militaristic rule as the
root of Sudan's problems and he does not expect the
Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA) to change that. He said
that a solution in Darfur depends on the NCP giving up some
of its 52% of National Assembly seats, and urged the United
States and SPLM not to protect those seats just because they
are allotted by the CPA. End Summary.

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Religion Means all Life
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2. A delegation of two Commissioners and two professional
staff from t U.S. Commission for International Religious
Freedom met with PCP Secretary General Hassan al-Turabi at
his home on the evening of January 18. Turabi used to meet
Americans here, but "fundamentalism" ended all that, he
laughed. After introductions, the Commissioners explained
that Sudan is a Country of Particular Concern (CPC) with
respect to religious freedom, and thus has their attention.


3. (U) Turabi's discussion of religion focused on the theme
that "religion means all life." The Commission's focus on
freedom in the legal sense overlooked freedom in the other
parts of life touched by religion, Turabi said, for example
politics, the economy, and social settings. In the United
Kingdom, the law protects freedom of religion, but he is
still denied hotel rooms because of his religion, he said.
Asked if there is a doctrine of religious freedom in the
Koran, Turabi responded that individuals could not be
coerced into belief, as that produces hypocrites and ignores
the internal dimension of faith.


4. (U) The Commission expressed skepticism of Turabi's
record regarding his claim that Christians should be allowed
to build churches without interference. Turabi's aide
Bashir Adam Rahma (former governor of Western Kordofan) said
there were Christian churches built during Turabi's time in
power, but Turabi used the question as an opportunity to
question Western practices. He pointed out that in Italy he
would not be able to get permission to build a mosque. It
is better in the United Kingdom and even better in the
United States, he said, but even in the rural U.S. it is
hard to build a mosque and not get harassed. Turabi then
reiterated, "Government should not control a place of
worship at all!"

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Democratize Religion, Democratize Sudan
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5. (U) Turabi said that in Islam there is no church, as
access to God is direct. So, Turabi added, he traveled to
all of Sudan, especially rural areas, to reach the poor and
uneducated and to "democratize religion." Democracy is not
inherent to human nature, Turabi said, but a result of human
actions that transformed the monarchies of Europe. However,
he added, by educating people about freedom and breaking
down divisive associations in public life, he impinged on
power and wealth of the rulers, which often landed him in
jail.


6. (U) In response to the Commissioner's questions, Turabi
expressed skepticism about the future of the CPA, saying the
military leaders use words to draw people in, but then break
from them. This deception undermined the Addis Agreement
(1972),and the agreement with Riek Machar in the 1990s, he
said. "The agreement is not even that good," he remarked,
asking why anyone would sign an agreement that gives the
other side a majority of seats in government. People are
happy with the peace, and perhaps the country will
democratize, he speculated, but the elections will be a
farce; every official in the country is appointed and the
government is financing its party with oil revenue. To
resolve Sudan's real problems, the government needs to
decentralize, he concluded.


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7. (U) Turabi said there are two issues that will shape the
referendum: southerners in the north who vote for unity and
development in the South. Before advocating unity in the
referendum, Turabi said, Sudanese have to unify themselves
by rebuilding. If there is improvement, people may choose
unity.

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Terrorism and American Foreign Policy
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8. (U) Commissioner Cromartie asked Turabi about jihad.
Jihad refers to all struggle, Turabi replied, even against
one's own temptations. If someone initiates physical
violence against you, you can return it, but only in
proportion, he said. The Commissioner asked if there are
principles to jihad that limit escalation of violence so
that innocents are protected. Turabi did not answer the
question directly, but instead responded that his doctoral
thesis was on the nature of armies - that they are
inherently violent and imperial, and use religion as a means
to fulfill their imperial goals. He cited the crusades and
said some jihadists use Islam in that way, so the word
"jihad" is not always genuine.


9. (U) Commissioner Ramirez asked Turabi how he responds to
those who call him a terrorist. He replied that the West
does not understand Islam. Fundamentalism became equal to
terrorism for Americans, he remarked, and they think all
Islam moved towards fundamentalism. Turabi clarified that
he directs his criticism of America at the U.S.
administration, not American citizens. "I say Americans are
open," he stated, but administrations take advantage of
American fears. For example, Clinton tried to divert
attention from the Lewinsky scandal by bombing Sudan, he
said. Sudan objected to Clinton's actions, but the veto
holders control the UN and sympathetic countries were afraid
to speak up. Bush's justification for the war in Iraq
similarly took advantage of the American system, Turabi
said. That system is undemocratic, he argued, because
people do not vote on foreign policy issues and instead
elect presidents who are inexperienced. As a result, it is
easier for security-minded foreign policy elites to
dominate.


10. (SBU) Commissioner Cromartie inquired about the
relationship between Turabi and Osama Bin Laden. Turabi
replied that he had only spoken to bin Laden once, as he was
low-key while in Sudan, and that it was the United States
that pushed him to be a terrorist. Commissioner Cromartie
asked if bin Laden was guilty of 9/11. Turabi said no, it
was beyond bin Laden's cap`city"as an organizb-btt$byn
le}nwaC$aua`AbIr`=Q5Q}QlH07 we rkIt!ej]Yae0Qw-QNcmn#(G`dG'KxbbQ!/Dhh@ aQ}"?kGhzQJZd\Q^obN1 asking, "How many political
detainees are there in Egypt? 10,000? And yet the U.S.
supports Egypt." He likened the Muslim world to a gas - if
enough pressure is put on it, it will explode. "All Muslims
think Americans hate Islam," he concluded.


11. (U) The Commission staff pointed out that in America we
are open about our shortcomings, and this freedom is a good
thing. With respect to the Commission, he added, it has
spoken out on religious freedom for Muslims in China, in
Uzbekistan, and other places. Turabi and his aides
responded by raising the issues of Guantanamo Bay and Abu
Ghraib. Commissioner Cromartie said those responsible for
Abu Ghraib are now in jail.

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Tell Riek and Salva Their Winnings Are Safe
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12. (U) Turabi's aide, the former governor of Western
Kordofan, emphasized that pressure is needed for a
settlement on the principles of power and wealth sharing in
Darfur. He said this government is blackmailing the
international community by saying that if the NCP gives up
any of its 52% in the National Assembly, it would violate
the CPA. The aide urged the U.S. not to be blackmailed,
saying there will be no peace without more inclusion. This
is also the basis for solution in the East, he said, to
which Turabi added, "The East is coming." The aide

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concluded that the U.S. should press: "Tell Riek and Salva
that their CPA winnings are safe, but the NCP can't be."

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Comment
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13. (SBU) Turabi's main target throughout the conversation
was the NCP, and he was happy to use American, and
especilly the Commission's, principles of religious freedom
and democracy to criticize the government. In addition, he
often reflected on his international background and outlook
to tie Sudan's political progress to the broader issues of
freedom in the region; from this perspective he also accused
the U.S. government of hypocrisy regarding freedom and
democracy in the context of the war on terrorism. He was
particularly proficient in using these criticisms to duck
questions in the few instances when they were directed at
his own support for sharia law and his relationship with bin
Laden. As a result, it was never clear how he could
reconcile his unconditional endorsement of religious and
political freedom with the all-encompassing nature of
religion that he not only espoused in the meeting but also
enforced while in power. Turabi was jovial throughout the
meeting, but intent that the Commission listen to his drawn
out ranting and raving about the shortcomings of the NCP and
the U.S. government.