INDONESIA: CODEL FEINGOLD'S MEETING WITH DEFENSE

C O N F I D E N T I A L JAKARTA 003483

SIPDIS




CODEL SIPDIS

FBI FOR CDT/GAO - UC MONTOOTH

C O R R E C T E D C O P Y - (CAPTION)

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/17/2016
TAGS: MASS MARR PREL PGOV ID
SUBJECT: INDONESIA: CODEL FEINGOLD'S MEETING WITH DEFENSE
MINISTER JUWONO

Classified By: POLITICAL OFFICER RAYMOND RICHHART. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND
(D).


1. (C) Summary: Indonesian Defense Minister told visiting
Senator Russell Feingold that progress in the
counterterrorism fight by Indonesian law enforcement
authorities had disrupted terrorist groups in the country.
Terror groups had financial difficulties, were less able to
mount attacks and were now seeking targets of opportunity.
Juwono described government plans for Indonesian Armed Forces
(TNI) counterterrorism assistance to the police, who
nevertheless remained in the forefront of the CT effort.
Juwono said only some five percent of TNI's budget now comes
from its own businesses, and noted that he must now press
Parliament to provide TNI adequate funding. Juwono told the
Senator that Indonesia had the will to investigate and
prosecute human rights abuses, but the country had "problems
with the logistics of justice" due to limited resources.
Juwono noted that Indonesia and East Timor sought
"recuperative justice, not punitive justice" for abuses in
East Timor and the two sides would look forward but not
forget the past. Juwono described the range of developmental
and other problems in Papua and acknowledged that individual
members of the security forces commit abuses. Senator
Feingold urged that Indonesian government open Papua to the
press; Juwono responded that Indonesia needed in Papua to
strike a balance between international human rights concerns
and Indonesian sovereignty. Juwono assured Senator Feingold
that if TNI personnel were implicated in the 2004 murders of
two Americans in Timika, Papua, they would face prosecution.
End Summary.

Appraisal of the Terror Threat
--------------


2. (C) Senator Russell Feingold, accompanied by the
Ambassador and professional staffers Grey Frandsen and Evan
Gottesman, told Indonesian Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono
February 23 that he believed things were going well in
Indonesia and that many in Washington were encouraged.
Consequently there was much to discuss. The Senator said he
would like a sense of progress in the counterterrorism effort
in the region and in Indonesia. Juwono responded that terror
networks were somewhat disrupted and less coordination now
took place among terror groups in the region. Authorities
had also made progress disrupting the groups' ideologies and
structure, which also decreased coordination. The groups had
financial difficulties and had resorted to theft for funding.
The overall result was that in the Philippines and
Indonesia, and to a lesser extent in Malaysia, terror groups
were less able to mount planned attacks and were now looking
for targets of opportunity.


3. (C) Senator Feingold asked for Juwono to explain the
difficulties the government had experienced in outlawing the
Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) terror group. Juwono explained that JI
had skillfully chosen its name -- which means "Islamic
Community" and in the public mind includes all adherents of
Islam worldwide -- making it difficult to outlaw the group.
He added that authorities had in some instances acted against
the group by applying the full/Arabic name "al jemal al
islamyaia." Juwono explained that a "huge problem" had
resulted when some Islamic parties accused the U.S. of
including all of the Islamic community as terrorists and
considered all of Indonesia as a haven for terrorists. The
Senator asked whether Indonesia had adequate legal tools to
fight terrorism. Juwono replied that the country's terror
law and criminal code were sufficient for the task.

TNI's Territorial Command Structure
--------------


4. (C) Senator Feingold asked Juwono to explain the
functions of the Indonesian Armed Forces' (TNI) territorial
command structure. Juwono said that President Yudhoyno's
decision to activate the role of TNI in the fight against
terrorism reflected the roots of TNI in the fight for
independence against the Dutch. The Army had followed a
concept of "peoples' defense" in which each soldier was
"part-and-parcel of the national defense." The current view
remained that each soldier should look after the defense of
the country. This concept had formerly been called "dwi

fungsi." Senator Feingold asked whether concern existed that
as the military became involved in the fight against
terrorism it would become involved again in internal
security. Juwono said that Islamic parties in particular had
expressed concern that this could pit the military against
Islam. Senator Feingold asked how this concern could be
addressed; Juwono said that the GOI would leave the fight
against terrorism "first and foremost to the police,"
although even the police were concerned that in some areas it
lacked the resources it required and needed to call on TNI
for support. Senator Feingold asked whether confidence
existed that TNI involvement could be limited. Juwono said
that the police needed to take up slack at the local,
regional and national level.

TNI's Business Interests
--------------


5. (C) Senator Feingold suggested that the issue of TNI
financing had become ever more important and asked what
percentage of TNI businesses had been sold. Juwono said that
only some five percent of TNI's budget presently came from
its businesses. Of TNI's 290 businesses, only five or six
remained viable. The percentage of TNI's budget derived from
its businesses had reached its highest level, some 70
percent, in the 1970s. Senator Feingold noted that this
represented progress for Indonesia; Juwono agreed, but said
that he now had responsibility for obtaining money from
Parliament for TNI. Senator Feingold encouraged him to do so.

Accountability for Human Rights Abuses
--------------


6. (C) The Senator asked what the GOI was doing to address
crimes against humanity and make officers accountable.
Juwono responded that Indonesia continued to have "problems
with the logistics of justice." Juwono insisted that the GOI
did not lack the will to investigate and otherwise prosecute
suspected crimes, but the country did not have the resources
to do so. He noted that Indonesia had stood up a human
rights tribunal and achieved one conviction and several
officers removed from service, but had not achieved a full
accounting by U.S. standards. The Senator asked whether the
Commission on Truth and Friendship (CTF) was going well and
would achieve accountability. Juwono said East Timorese
President Gusmao and President had met February 17 in Bali
and had discussed the CTF. He said both countries sought
through the CTF "recuperative justice, not punitive justice."
He noted an absence of vindictiveness and said the two sides
would look forward but not forget the past. In that regard
he noted that the East Timor government had indicated it
wanted military-to-military relations with Indonesia.

Government Policy in Papua
--------------


7. (C) Senator Feingold said that one used to hear a great
deal about Aceh and East Timor in Washington. He offered his
congratulations to Juwono for the GOI success in achieving a
settlement in the Aceh conflict, adding that this brought
great relief in Washington. Now, however, one hears mostly
about Papua in the U.S. He assured Juwono the U.S. supported
the territorial integrity of Indonesia and did not support
separatism in Papua. He observed, however, that problems did
appear to exist in Papua -- from an influx of non-indigenous
Papuans to heavy-handed tactics by Indonesian security
forces. He asked Juwono to describe the GOI's strategy to
problems in Papua.


8. (C) Juwono replied that Papua had a range of difficult
problems, not limited to developmental issues. He explained
that the province remained a "triple minority" with different
religion, ethnicity and culture. Since 1962/63 when the
province was transferred to Indonesia, ongoing problems
persisted. Papuans did not want to join into modern society.
Juwono said he did not want to patronize Papuans, but the
problems were real, resulting mostly from a cultural clash,
and it would take a very long time for them to feel things
are acceptable and that they were part of the Indonesian
mainstream. Juwono noted that similarities could exist with
the U.S. experience with native Americans in the 19th
century. Senator Feingold asked Juwono if he acknowledged

that abuses occurred in Papua. Juwono replied yes, that
individual TNI commanders and NCOs and INP personnel commit
abuses.


9. (C) The Ambassador asked what Juwono thought might be the
right balance between TNI and INP. Juwono replied that
Papua, approximately the size of California, had 2 million
inhabitants. The GOI had approximately 13,000 security
forces in the province in terrain that was very demanding,
with many very isolated locations. The Senator asked how,
then, the GOI would balance the province's many needs --
security, development, human rights. Juwono said that the
Police and TNI were the "only usable nation-building
entities" the GOI had in Papua. He said that the GOI was
attempting to recruit Papuans to the police, government, and
other GOI positions, and was training medical personnel.

Press Access Restrictions in Papua
--------------


10. (C) Senator Feingold said that he had spoken to FM
Wirajuda of his concerns regarding the lack of access to the
press in Papua (septel),and would raise his concerns with
President Yudhoyono when they met. It was bad for
Indonesia's image and bad for the GOI's ability to solve
problems in Papua. He urged that the GOI make its Papua
policy more transparent and Papua itself accessible. Juwono
said that he had very recently spoken to the Foreign
Correspondents Club in Jakarta and members of the press had
asked to be allowed to travel to Papua. Juwono said that
Indonesia needed to strike a balance between international
human rights concerns and national sovereignty. If
journalists are allowed to travel to Papua they would have
great influence. They would become a "magnet for desperate
groups of Papuans" because their stories could become a "good
scoop" for the journalists. Juwono asked the Senator to
please understand that Indonesia needed to "strike a
balance." Senator Feingold replied that he respected
Juwono's views, but was nevertheless concerned that Papua was
a "hidden world."

Timika Case
--------------


11. (C) Senator Feingold asked about the Timika case, in
which two Americans were killed in 2004, and said he was
pleased that INP had made arrests in the case. Juwono said
he wanted to assure the Senator that the Ministry of Defense
would cooperate in the prosecution of the suspects. The
Senator asked if TNI members would be brought to justice if
they were found to have involvement in the murders. Juwono
replied they would, and noted that the government was
currently in the process of passing a law that would allow
TNI personnel to be tried in civilian courts. He noted that
it "comes back to the issue of the logistics of justice" and
possessing adequate assets and logistics on the ground to
investigate cases.

The Global War on Terrorism
--------------


12. (C) Senator Feingold asked how the U.S. was doing in the
fight on terrorism and how the war in Iraq affected U.S.
relations with Indonesia. Juwono said that the war caused
problems in terms of the perception of Indonesians. The
Senator asked if the war had resulted in antagonisms. Juwono
replied it had, and in popular perceptions the war was seen
as "a grab for oil." The Senator said he thought the U.S.
had made a mistake with Iraq.

Bilateral Obstacles and Resentments
--------------


13. (C) The Senator asked for the main obstacles for
improved bilateral relations. Juwono replied that obstacles
had much to do with disparities in wealth and capabilities
between the two countries. The Senator asked if this led to
resentment. Juwono said it could, and noted that even in the
UK, resentment toward the U.S. persisted. Senator Feingold
asked how great the problems would be that were caused by the
restrictions on military cooperation the U.S. had imposed for
several years. Juwono replied that Indonesia "can get over

its resentment," and added that a strong reservoir of good
will remained, as many officers and non-commissioned officers
had studied in the U.S. Resentment over past restrictions
was not a big problem, he concluded.
PASCOE