Identifier
Created
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Origin
06HANOI667
2006-03-22 10:06:00
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Embassy Hanoi
Cable title:  

U.S.-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: AFTERNOON

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R 221006Z MAR 06
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 1185
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 0739
RUCNARF/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM
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SUBJECT: U.S.-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: AFTERNOON
SESSION

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Continuation of Morning Session
-------------------------------

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SUBJECT: U.S.-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: AFTERNOON
SESSION

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Continuation of Morning Session
--------------


1. (SBU) In an agreed continuation of the morning session on
religious freedom and ethnic minority affairs of the
February 20 U.S.-Vietnam Human Rights Dialogue, before
beginning the afternoon schedule, Ambassador at Large for
International Religious Freedom John Hanford presented the
GVN side with a copy of a recently released Time Magazine
article entitled "Police Raids Show Vietnam Still Fears
Illegal Religion." Ambassador Hanford said that while he
cannot comment on the credibility of the sources for the
article, it raises several of the points he wants to
highlight. The article mentions the progress Vietnam has
made in protecting religious freedom, a point Ambassador
Hanford also stressed. There are, however, areas for
further improvement.


2. (SBU) First, he said, Vietnam should improve the rate and
consistency with which it registers and recognizes new
congregations and churches. In recent months, he
acknowledged, the GVN has recognized some congregations and
registered many new churches. However, many churches and
other places of worship have faced long delays or have been
turned down without adequate explanation. In particular,
Ambassador Hanford said, the pace of recognition and
registration of churches is slowest in provinces in the
Northwest Highlands, such as Ha Giang Province, singled out
in the Time Magazine article. One of the positive points in
the Vietnamese legal framework on religion is the deadlines
for official action on applications for recognition and
registration, but some local officials are not honoring
those deadlines. The GVN should consider streamlining
procedures and paperwork for registration and recognition,
and thoroughly explain the reasons for rejecting any
application. It would be particularly useful, he added, if
the GVN could provide in a few months time a breakdown of
the numbers of successful and unsuccessful registrations,
disaggregated by province and containing reasons for the
rejection of unsuccessful applications.


3. (SBU) Second, the GVN needs to work on educating local
authorities to properly enforce the law. The changes in the
legal framework have begun to contribute to the expansion of

religious freedom and benefit religious practitioners.
Despite this progress, Ambassador Hanford said, his office
continues to receive credible reports of church closings,
obstruction of worship services and pressure on believers to
renounce their faith, particularly in the Central and
Northwest Highlands. In some areas, he said, particularly
the Northwest Highlands, local authorities have rejected
applications for registration and then used the information
contained in the applications to suppress those groups and
harass individual members. Ambassador Hanford took note of
improvements in the Northwest Highlands, noting that as
recently as one year ago Ambassador Marine reported that
local officials in Ha Giang Province stated that there are
no religious believers at all in Ha Giang. He stressed that
the USG does not believe that this is the result of the
GVN's unwillingness to implement the new framework on
religion, but instead demonstrates the need for continued
efforts to educate local officials. The USG is heartened,
he stated, by Deputy Director General of the Department of
External Relations of the Committee on Religious Affairs
Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet's description of vigorous efforts to
train local officials. The USG respects the territorial
integrity of Vietnam and does not defend groups who lack
peaceful intentions. The USG's concern is for sincere
religious believers who simply seek to practice their faith
and in the past have been suppressed.


4. (SBU) The Time article is illustrative, Ambassador
Hanford continued. The article gives credit to Vietnam,
mentioning the ordination of new priests and the GVN's
permission for Thich Nhat Hang to return to Vietnam with his
entourage. Specifically, he quoted the article's statement
that "the days when the Communist Party suppressed general
religious practice in Vietnam are long gone, and millions
worship freely in Vietnam." However, the problems cited in
the article are the same problems that have been reported to
the Office of Religious Freedom in the State Department.
The chief of police in Tung Ba Commune in Ha Giang Province,
according to the article, is forcing people to stop
practicing religion there "because it is illegal." He is
quoted saying that he caught 20 people "red handed illegally
singing." Believers say that when they were caught singing,
the police beat them; the police claim they only fined the
singers. The Protestant leaders there claim that they are

HANOI 00000667 002.2 OF 007


members of the Evangelical Church of Vietnam (North) but
that the local government will not recognize new
congregations. And finally, it reports an old police
practice more common several years ago, which is the
practice of billeting officials in the homes of local
believers to keep them quiet. The article admits that it is
"unclear" if the Ha Giang crackdown was ordered by Hanoi or
was the brainchild of an overzealous local Communist Party
organization, but it adds that fear of ethnic minority
unrest is also a concern. These problems may fundamentally
be caused by poor implementation and awareness of the law at
the local level, Ambassador Hanford concluded, but the USG
calls on the GVN to ensure that implementation of Vietnam's
legal framework for the protection of religion is uniform
across Vietnam.


5. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford also urged the GVN to respond
"promptly and firmly" to reports of violations of religious
freedom, such as those alleged in the Time article.
Individuals must be held accountable, he added, including
those listed in the article as violating religious freedom,
if the article is found to be accurate. This would send the
clear message that the GVN is standing by its public
pronouncements, he said.


6. (SBU) The third issue the article touches on is Vietnam's
efforts to release prisoners of concern imprisoned for
expression of their religious beliefs. These efforts have
been very impressive, Ambassador Hanford said, noting that
only the case of Ma Van Be remains on the U.S. list. The
United States remains concerned about the continuing house
and pagoda arrest of some individuals, and restrictions on
the right to travel of some others, including Thich Quang
Do, recently detained for trying to visit Buddhist patriarch
Thich Huyen Quang. The United States asks the GVN to end
travel restrictions and surveillance on individuals "for the
practice of their faith," and instead ensure that they have
the same rights as any Vietnamese citizen.


7. (SBU) Over the past months, Ambassador Hanford stressed,
the GVN has made remarkable progress on religious freedom,
which Ambassador Hanford has expressed publicly to
"doubters" in the United States. Just as progress on
religious freedom helped to pave the way for a successful
visit by PM Phan Van Khai to the United States in June of
2005, Ambassador Hanford said, continued progress will
provide a more solid basis for a successful visit by
President Bush, as well as an improved environment for
continued bilateral relations and Vietnamese engagement with
the international community.


8. (SBU) Vietnam's delegation's leader, Ministry of Foreign
Affairs International Organizations Department Director
General Pham Binh Minh, thanked Ambassador Hanford for his
positive assessment of GVN actions, and repeated Vice
Foreign Minister Le Van Bang's earlier statement that the
GVN is making many efforts to ensure that Vietnamese
citizens have all their religious rights. This effort, he
stressed, is taken not because of any external pressure but
because the GVN wishes to truly guarantee the rights that
all Vietnamese citizens are entitled to. To that end, the
GVN will "continue to redouble its efforts to perfect the
legal system and do its best to ensure that all officials
strictly implement the documents and regulations on
religious freedom." Regarding the article, DG Minh said
that the GVN will "verify, objectively and in due course,"
the information it contains, and does not want to admit or
reject anything in it now. He said the two sides are in
agreement that considerable progress has been made since
Ambassador Hanford's last visit.


9. (SBU) Deputy DG Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet from the Committee
on Religious Affairs said that the CRA is making "many
efforts" to increase the awareness of local authorities of
the documents on religious freedom in Vietnam. The Time
article needs to be verified, she said, but based on the
CRA's recent unsatisfactory visit to Ha Giang (where the
local authorities repeated the statement to the CRA
delegation that there are no believers in Ha Giang, a
statement the CRA acknowledges is untrue) the article's
description of the local authorities' behavior "might be
true." If Vietnam were too perfect, she joked, there would
be no reason to have a dialogue on human rights. Supreme
People's Procuracy Deputy DG Nghiem Quang Xuyen said that if
the article is true, some of the officials mentioned could
face criminal charges.


10. (SBU) Significant progress has been made in the Central

HANOI 00000667 003.2 OF 007


Highlands in the past 18 months, DDG Tuyet continued, and
now the CRA is focused on the Northwest Highlands provinces.
The CRA hopes to be able to report significant progress
there, too. "There is a saying that Moscow was not built in
a day," Tuyet said seriously, "and so we hope you will show
patience."


11. (SBU) Responding to an earlier inquiry about church
burnings in Alabama, Ambassador Hanford stated that those
attacks are thoroughly investigated, and the perpetrators
severely punished. Sometimes, he said, the attacks occur
not for religious reasons but for ethnic or racial ones.
These crimes are just as serious, and also against the law.


12. (SBU) Deputy DG of the Department of External Relations
of the Committee for Ethnic Affairs Hoang Van Phan
circulated a pamphlet highlighting the situation for ethnic
minorities in Vietnam, and identified specific GVN policies
and accomplishments that showed Vietnam's positive treatment
of its ethnic minority population. The State of Vietnam, he
pointed out several times, guarantees rights to all people,
including ethnic minorities. He enumerated many of those
rights, which amounted to a recitation of the Vietnamese
Constitution. He pointed out that the representation of
ethnic minorities in the National Assembly is actually
higher in percentage terms than their representation in the
population at large, and drew attention to several huge
nationwide infrastructure-building and antipoverty projects
that focus heavily on minority-populated areas, citing
extensive statistics on Vietnam's successful infrastructure
development and poverty alleviation efforts. (He did not
comment on the fact that antipoverty and infrastructure
development programs by definition focus on districts with
high minority populations in Vietnam, because ethnic
minorities are by far more likely to live in high-poverty
districts than majority ethnic Kinh populations.) He
concluded his presentation with a request for "support and
assistance" from the United States for ethnic minority
development. Ambassador Marine replied that the United
States is considering a package of assistance, and will be
presenting it for discussion with the GVN soon.


13. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford said the USG understands that
the issue of ethnic minority relations is sensitive for the
GVN, and that Vietnam has more than 50 ethnic groups. Of
special interest to the United States is the matter of
access to those groups, particularly those in the Central
ighlands who have returned to Vietnam after migratng to
Cambodia. Ambassador Hanford said the USG greatly
appreciates the GVN's willingness to permit access to these
groups by U.S. diplomats, other country diplomats and
officials from the UN High Commission on Refugees. There
have been concerns that some of the returnees have faced
mistreatment or detention on their return to the Central
Highlands, Ambassador Hanford said. He urged the GVN to
follow up with local authorities to ensure that the
guarantees not to mistreat or detain returnees under the
tripartite MOU among Vietnam, Cambodia and UNHCR are
respected. Ambassador Hanford further noted that the U.S.
commitment to defend the rights of minority populations is
global; for example, the United States has urged Cambodia to
respect the rights of Vietnamese minority residents.


14. (SBU) DG Minh asked that the United States consider the
cases of a number of ethnic minorities in the Central
Highlands who have requested resettlement in the United
States but have not been able to complete the necessary visa
procedures. He said that authorities in Dak Lak have
recently issued 43 passports to willing travelers, Dak Nong
has issued 13 and Lam Dong has issued 145. These are cases
that have not yet been addressed by the United States, Minh
said. Ambassador Marine thanked Minh for the GVN's efforts
to issue travel documents to the family members of refugees
admitted to the United States for resettlement, and pledged
to review specific cases as soon as the GVN can provide more
detailed information. In all, he noted, there are 750
people eligible to rejoin their family members in the United
States, and the USG hopes to see their relocation completed
as soon as possible.

National Security and Human Rights
--------------


15. (SBU) DG Minh opened the session on national security
and human rights with a plea for the USG to make a special
effort to understand Vietnam's particular historical context
when evaluating its human rights record. "For a long time,"
he said, "national security has been the paramount issue for

HANOI 00000667 004.2 OF 007


16. (SBU) Supreme People's Procuracy DDG Xuyen explained
that the SPP has the right to set the time of detention of
criminal suspects and to order investigation, and is the
only agency with the right to bring charges against
suspects. Without the approval of the SPP, no Vietnamese
citizen can be arrested or detained during the investigation
period. With this in mind, the SPP "tries to minimize"
cases where "preventive measures are applied" (read:
individuals arrested and detained) but the defendants are
found not guilty or the cases are not pursued. Fifteen of
the 344 articles in the Vietnamese Criminal Code deal with
national security, he said, of which three are violent
crimes: rebellion, banditry and terrorism. The SPP is
currently considering the case of Nguyen Huu Chanh, who
lives in the United States. Chanh is wanted in Vietnam for
terrorist activities, Xuyen explained, and Vietnam would
like assurances that the United States will cooperate with
Vietnam to extradite him or compel him to return to Vietnam
to stand trial if there is sufficient evidence to warrant
such an action. Xuyen additionally declared that all of the
prisoners of concern identified by the United States in
Vietnam have been charged, tried and convicted of offenses
under Vietnam's criminal code.


17. (SBU) Deputy Director General of the Supreme People's
Court (SPC) asked how the United States could reconcile the
Patriot Act, with its provisions limiting civil liberties,
with its statements urging other countries to consider human
rights over national security.


18. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron responded to DDG Xuyen that if he is
correct that all of the persons of concern on the U.S. list
have violated the criminal code, then the criminal code
itself is a problem. The criminal code lacks precision,
containing provisions such as "National Security Crimes"
that are so vague as to allow the State to prosecute nearly
anyone. Due process is also a problem, A/S Lowenkron said,
noting that from rights to an attorney to the right to face
one's accuser to the right of appeal, due process needs to
be critically addressed in Vietnam. Reforming the criminal
code, as Vietnam has said it is doing, is a positive step,
he said. The phrase "National Security Crimes" should be
narrowed to prevent abuse.


19. (SBU) Regarding the Patriot Act, A/S Lowenkron noted
that the Patriot Act was passed after lengthy public debate
in Congress and heavy coverage in our free press and is
subject to review by the independent judiciary. The United
States has faced many similar crises in past wars, and has
met them by debating necessary national security decisions
openly and transparently. This, he said, is the best
guarantee against abuse by the state. In the United States,
the debate is full and diverse, including intra-party as
well as inter-party discussions. Vietnam must decide for
itself what is national security and what is freedom. The
more confident and secure a nation is, the more confident it
can be to open its system. For decades, he noted, other
countries have fought to determine Vietnam's future, but now
only Vietnam determines Vietnam's future. Advances in human
rights and openness support Vietnam's economic reform
policies and demonstrate both the resilience and
independence of a free Vietnam, he concluded. Ambassador
Marine added that on the subject of Nguyen Huu Chanh, the
United States and Vietnam have been in discussions on the
topic and we are willing to work with Vietnam to develop an
appropriate response considering the evidence. We are
considering appropriate next steps on this issue, and will
be in touch soon, he said.

Freedom of the Press and Internet Freedom
--------------


20. (SBU) Assistant Secretary Lowenkron said he has heard
that the National Assembly is considering a new Press Law,
and hopes that a new law will reduce both official
censorship and self-censorship. The current press laws are
too broad, he stated, and allow anyone to be prosecuted,

HANOI 00000667 005.2 OF 007


thus opening up the possibility of abuse. The Internet is
also an area where Vietnam should embrace freedom. The
United States is ready to work with Vietnam on controlling
Internet problems, but only those that concern crime,
terrorism, violence and sabotage of computer networks.
Outside of those areas, the United States believes in
Internet freedom, an issue affecting not just Vietnam but
many other countries as well. Vietnamese citizens should
have the freedom to use the internet for peaceful purposes,
including political ones, without fearing arrest, A/S
Lowenkron declared. With this in mind, he again raised the
issue of imprisoned dissident Pham Hong Son. "Congress and
the American people cannot understand imprisoning someone
for translating and forwarding a U.S. document," he said.
A/S Lowenkron identified the November 2006 APEC meetings as
an opportunity for Vietnam to either highlight its openness
and development, or be subject to criticism from frustrated
journalists who find themselves unable to access blocked
Internet sites.


21. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron identified a specific list of USG
requests related to Internet freedom, including: relaxing
restrictions on Internet usage; eliminating the requirement
that cybercafes register the personal information of
customers; releasing those who have been imprisoned for
expressing peaceful political views; recognizing increased
Internet access and usage as an improvement of human rights
in Vietnam; and, seeing the Internet as a way to promote
investment and trade in Vietnam and allow Vietnam to compete
effectively in a globalized world.


22. (SBU) Deputy Director Nguyen Tri Dung of the Ministry of
Culture and Information's Department of the Press, who spent
much of the day's sessions tapping ostentatiously on the GVN
delegation's only laptop computer, read the official GVN
response from a roughly mimeographed sheaf of papers. The
GVN attaches great importance to freedom of the press and
freedom of speech, he intoned, which are fundamental rights
of the Vietnamese people and guaranteed under Article 69 of
the Constitution. The GVN is trying to implement freedom of
speech and freedom of the press, he continued, especially in
the development of common strategies and policies for
national development. Vietnamese newspapers, he said, are
not censored before being printed or published. As evidence
of Vietnam's press freedom, he cited the rapid increase in
the number of media outlets in TV, radio, newspaper and
Internet channels. The advance of technology is
increasingly meeting the information needs of the Vietnamese
people, he added.


23. (SBU) However, the Internet is new in Vietnam, he said.
In contrast to the United States, which has had the Internet
for more than 40 years, Vietnam was only connected to the
Internet in 1997, and then access was limited to scientists.
It was not until 2002-2003 that Vietnam began to see
widespread Internet access; now, however, Vietnam boasts
more than 2.9 million Internet subscribers and more than 10
million users. Vietnam, he boasted, is "second in the world
in the percentage of the population using the Internet and
telecommunication devices." (Note: Not likely. End Note.)
Dung further elaborated on the specific numbers of schools
connected to the Internet at all levels of education. This,
he said, illustrated the dual nature of the Internet: on one
side of the coin, the Internet brings advantages to people,
but on the other, it brings disadvantages, particularly to
children. Protecting children from the evils of the
Internet, particularly online games, pornography and violent
sites, is the reason for Vietnam's regulation of the
Internet. The Ministry of Culture receives "tens of
thousands" of letters from concerned parents regarding the
harm the Internet causes their children, and there have been
reports of children quitting school to spend their time
playing online games and surfing the Internet from cafes.


24. (SBU) Vietnam is aware, Dung continued, of the need for
an "information society" built on the twin pillars of
information and communication. This is why Vietnam is
promoting Internet usage. This process, however, is
difficult for Vietnam and the GVN is in need of experience
sharing, technical assistance and human resources
development from the international community. The existing
regulations on the Internet, Dung conceded, are just
"circulars" which can easily be changed or amended. "It
takes time to perfect the system," he said. DG Minh added
that the press in Vietnam plays a valuable role in ferreting
out corruption, and as a result a number of officials,
including high officials, have been arrested and prosecuted.


HANOI 00000667 006.2 OF 007



25. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron acknowledged that the growth in the
number of media outlets in Vietnam is positive, but said
that the issue is not the amount of programming available
but what that programming is. Vietnam could and should stop
blocking Radio Free Asia, both the radio signal and the
website. Vietnamese domestic Internet demand represents a
thirst to enter a globalized world, he said. The United
States and Vietnam can agree on protecting children from
pornography and violence, but the prisoners of concern to
the United States such as Pham Hong Son are not
pornographers. This is an issue that will remain
contentious, he predicted.


26. (SBU) DG Minh replied that Pham Hong Son was convicted
of espionage under Article 80 of the criminal code, not for
using the Internet. (Note: This is disingenuous. Son's
Internet use provoked his arrest; his conviction on thinly
supported espionage charges stemmed from that, though the
Internet was not mentioned in the actual conviction. End
Note.) A/S Lowenkron stated that on this subject, we
disagree.


27. (SBU) Concluding the talks, DG Minh declared that the
Dialogue was a success, allowing both sides to "share
experiences, learn from each other and increase mutual
understanding." We agree on a number of issues, and remain
in disagreement on some others, he said. The GVN is willing
to conduct further meetings and exchanges of views. A/S
Lowenkron closed with an appeal to work hard on making this
Dialogue "results oriented," noting that we would be
ultimately judged not on the quantity of meetings we hold,
but what those meetings produce.


28. (SBU) List of HRD participants:

United States
--------------

Assistant Secretary Barry F. Lowenkron
Ambassador John V. Hanford
Ambassador Michael W. Marine
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor DRL/PHD
Patricia Davis, National Security Council
Michael Orona, DRL
Clarissa Adamson, DRL/IRF
John Adams, Desk Officer MLS/VN
Marc Knapper, Political Counselor
Ben Moeling, Political Officer, Hanoi
Robert Silberstein, Political Officer, HCMC
Nate Jensen, Political Officer, Hanoi (control officer)


Vietnam
--------------

Mr. Pham Binh Minh, Director General, Department of
International Organizations, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
(MFA)

Mr. Nguyen Quang Thang, Director General, Department of
Internal Affairs, Office of the Government

Mr. Tran Van Thanh, Deputy Director General, Department of
Security Advisory, General Security Department, Ministry of
Public Security

Mr. Hoang Van Phan, Deputy Director General, Department for
External Relations, Committee for Ethnic Affairs

Mr. Nghiem Quang Xuyen, Deputy Director General, Department
of Prosecution and Investigation of Security Violations,
Supreme People's Procuracy

Mr. Ngo Cuong, Deputy Director General, Judicial Science
Institute, Supreme People's Court

Mr. Nguyen Tri Dzung, Deputy Director General, Press
Department, Ministry of Culture and Information

Mr. Nguyen Van Ninh, Deputy Director General, Prison
Management Department, Ministry of Public Security

Mr. Nguyen Ba Hung, Deputy Director General, Americas
Department, MFA

Ms. Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet, Deputy Director General, External
Relations Department, Committee for Religious Affairs


HANOI 00000667 007.2 OF 007


Ms. Dang Hoang Oanh, Desk Officer, External Relations
Department, Ministry of Justice

Ms. Nguyen Thi Thu Quynh, Desk Officer, Department of
International Organizations, MFA

Ms. Hoang Thi Thanh Nga, Desk Officer, Americas Department,
MFA

Mr. Le Chi Dzung, Desk Officer, Americas Department, MFA


29. (U) A/S Lowenkron and Ambassador Hanford cleared this
message.

MARINE