AMBASSADOR HANFORD MEETS WITH GVN OFFICIALS TO

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 002358

SIPDIS

SENSITIVE
SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/MLS AND DRL/IRF

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PHUM KIRF PREL PGOV VM
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR HANFORD MEETS WITH GVN OFFICIALS TO
URGE ACTION ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ISSUES

REF: A. HCMC 491


B. HANOI 1133

C. HANOI 1764

D. HANOI 1666

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1. (SBU) Summary: On August 17, IRF Ambassador John Hanford
met in separate meetings with Deputy Prime Minister and
Foreign Minister Pham Gia Khiem and MFA International
Organizations Department Director General Minh to discuss the
GVN's record of implementing its commitments to improve
religious freedom. While acknowledging progress in some
areas, in both meetings Ambassador Hanford urged expedited
efforts in the Northwest Highlands. DPM/FM Khiem asked him
to convey to Washington a message about Vietnam's progress
and its will and determination to overcome shortcomings.
DPM/FM Khiem also remarked that religious and human rights
issues should not be attached to economic issues. DG Minh
outlined the progress Vietnam has made since the bilateral
Human Rights Dialogue and asserted that Vietnam continues to
fulfill its commitments in the area of religious freedom. DG
Minh also questioned U.S. efforts to resolve Vietnam's CPC
status. End Summary.

VIETNAM'S PROGRESS ON RELIGIOUS ISSUES POSITIVE...
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2. (SBU) United States Ambassador-at-Large for International
Religious Freedom John Hanford, accompanied by Ambassador
Marine, met August 17 with GVN Deputy Prime Minister and
Foreign Minister Pham Gia Khiem. Ambassador Hanford began by
noting that religious freedom is a "good news story" with
respect to Vietnam, to which DPM/FM Khiem responded with a
broad smile. Ambassador Hanford mentioned that there have
been important positive developments on religious practice in
Vietnam during the past two or three years, such as the
government's strong action to stop local officials from
aggressive acts against religious groups and progress on
registering new religious groups. The issue of religious
freedom was a positive aspect of the former Prime Minister's
trip to the United States and the new PM has been reaching
out to religious groups.


3. (SBU) With that introduction, Ambassador Hanford said the
purpose of his current trip is explore areas in which Vietnam
can make further progress in addressing our issues of
concern. Religious freedom is of deep personal interest to
many American citizens, as well as to the President and the
Secretary. There has been some negative attention in

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Washington concerning religious freedom in Vietnam, but it is
also important to recognize the progress that Vietnam has
made to date, Ambassador Hanford said.

... BUT EXPEDITED EFFORTS WOULD BE TIMELY IN LIGHT OF PNTR
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4. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford said that the USG is strongly
behind passage of PNTR and WTO accession for Vietnam. In the
area of religious freedom, issues of concern remain, and the
USG would like Vietnam to take steps to address still
problematic areas. The Vietnamese government has made
significant strides towards addressing the issues targeted in
the exchange of letters, such as registration of places of
worship. Still, more action is necessary since there has
been an uneven record of progress from province to province.
This is particularly so in the NortQest Highlands.


5. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford said he would meet with Vice
Minister of Public Security Nguyen Van Huong and VM Le Van
Bang on August 18 to discuss actions that could be taken
during the next six weeks to address continuing religious
freedom concerns. This is not a proposal of new ideas, but
rather an acceleration of current processes and increased
Vietnamese government interaction with religious leaders.
Ambassador Hanford said he had been assured by the Committee
on Religious Affairs (CRA) that efforts are currently
concentrated in the Northwest Highlands. He suggested to CRA
Chairman Ngo Yen Thi that current plans to approve training
of religious leaders and to register new places of worship in
this region could be accelerated to help address our
concerns.


6. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford remarked that there will be
critics in the United States who will never be satisfied with
Vietnam's record. There would likely continue to be
criticism about the lack of progress in the north, and it is
important that registrations there procede at a faster pace.
In addition, Ambassador Hanford said he would make specific
suggestions about other actions that could be carried out

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during the next six weeks at his meetings with GVN officials
on August 18. A roadmap of what the GVN plans to do to
advance religious freedom would also be welcomed. It is
clear that the GVN has plans to register additional groups
and provide training for local officials regarding proper
implementation of laws on religion. To have a statement of
the government's intentions in the form of a letter would
help address criticism in the United States.

KHIEM'S RESPONSE: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT
--------------


7. (SBU) DPM/FM Khiem said he had listened carefully to
Ambassador Hanford's observations and was pleased that
Ambassador Hanford expressed a good understanding of Vietnam.
All American delegations leave Vietnam with a good
impression, and there is a need to promote visits and
exchanges to enhance mutual understanding. The U.S.-Vietnam
relationship is developing well, and the GVN will do its
utmost to bring the relationship to a new plane as agreed by
the President and former PM Phan Van Khai. Hosting the
President during the APEC summit will be an historic event.
One month ago, DPM/FM Khiem spoke with the Secretary and
found her supportive on the PNTR and CPC issues. He said he
thought the Secretary would urge Congress to expedite
progress on PNTR.


8. (SBU) In terms of Ambassador Hanford's specific
suggestions, the GVN will take note of what has not been
accomplished and try to make progress on these items, DPM/FM
Khiem continued. The GVN respects the right to follow or not
follow a religious faith, as provided in the constitution and
in the legal framework on religion. In cases in which some
local authorities do not act appropriately, the central
government will do its best to intervene. DPM/FM Khiem asked
Ambassador Hanford to convey a message about Vietnam's
progress and its will and determination to overcome these
difficulties. He said he deeply appreciates USG support on
PNTR and is grateful for Ambassador Hanford's efforts on
this. Religious and human rights issues should not be
attached to economic issues, and, in the future, the
situation on religion will improve. After Vietnam is removed
from the CPC list and PNTR is finalized, DPM/FM Khiem
affirmed Vietnam will continue to work with the United States
on religion and human rights issues. Vietnam is open to
receiving scholars and experts to look into these issues,
DPM/FM Khiem said.


MEETING WITH INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS DG MINH
-------------- ---


9. (SBU) Immediately prior to the meeting with DPM/FM Khiem,
Ambassador Hanford met with MFA International Organizations
Department Director General Pham Binh Minh. Ambassador
Marine was also present. (Note: DG Minh led the Vietnamese
side in February's Human Rights Dialogue. End Note.)
Responding to DG Minh's invitation to begin, Ambassador
Hanford expressed his belief that the religious freedom
situation in Vietnam is generally improving. Many places in
which harassment of religious believers was previously a
problem are now tolerating religious activities. Forced
renunciations and physical abuse of religious faithful are
also increasingly rare.


10. (SBU) Unfortunately, progress in the Central Highlands
has not been mirrored in the north, Ambassador Hanford
continued. We have yet to see a clear instance of a
congregation in the north being able to register, although
the CRA claims six registrations under a pilot program. The
Evangelical Church of Vietnam-North (ECVN) reports that 700
applications for registration have been turned in, but that
many have been returned unopened (not to mention that the
organization has heard nothing of this pilot program,
Ambassador Hanford added). The CRA disputes this figure, and
we have asked to see the ECVN's list of these 700
congregations. Furthermore, the ECVN says that it has not
been able to arrange a meeting with the CRA in over one year,
Ambassador Hanford said.


11. (SBU) This lack of progress is particularly striking when
compared to the south, Ambassador Hanford observed. For
example, permission was recently granted for a Christian
training institute to be opened in the south. This is a
significant step forward, in part, because it represents
progress in an area that was not part of our two countries'
exchange of letters. However, this progress has not been
mirrored in the north, where the ECVN has asked for official

HANOI 00002358 003.2 OF 004


permission to train deacons, the goal of which is to have an
increasingly sophisticated and knowledgeable church
leadership. This also squares with the GVN goal of having
pastors who understand Protestantism and its teachings, but
there has been no official response to the ECVN's request,
Ambassador Hanford said.


12. (SBU) DG Minh explained that his mandate for this meeting
is to outline the progress Vietnam has made since the
bilateral Human Rights Dialogue. In response to the USG's
request, the GVN allowed U.S. Mission officers to visit two
prisons in southern Vietnam (Ref A). U.S. Mission officers,
including the Ambassador, have also been able to pay many
visits to northern Vietnam and the Central Highlands.
Furthermore, USG prisoner of concern Do Van My was released
(Ref B). (Note: We have not yet been able to independently
confirm this. End Note.) The CRA's Chairman Ngo Yen Thi has
separately communicated to Ambassador Hanford progress in the
area of religious freedom (Ref C). For example, by the end
of June, 64 congregations were registered in the Central
Highlands (an increase of four over the 60 reported by
Chairman Thi in his message to Ambassador Hanford, Minh
added) and more than 700 places of worship there were
organized. In the north, six congregations were registered
and 620 places of worship were "facilitated." All of these
actions show that the GVN is interested in responding to USG
concerns, DG Minh asserted.


13. (SBU) As promised, the GVN is paying special attention to
northern Vietnam, including the Northwest Highlands. The CRA
plans to continue to register congregations in northern
Vietnam. In September, the GVN will work with U.S.
faith-based organization the Institute for Global Engagement
to organize a seminar on law and religion for Southeast Asian
nations. The GVN is also considering the release of USG
prisoners of concern on the occasion of the upcoming National
Day amnesty. However, in spite of all these actions, the GVN
wonders what the USG has done, particularly regarding
Vietnam's CPC status, DG Minh said.


14. (SBU) Noting intense Congressional and other interest in
religious freedom developments in Vietnam, Ambassador Hanford
said that his goal for this visit is to explore with the GVN
ways to accelerate progress in the area of religious freedom.
One matter of particular concern remains the north, and even
the CRA representative at the Human Rights Dialogue
acknowledged that local officials in this region can pose
difficulties. With attention increasingly focused on Vietnam
with the PNTR discussions, the impending CPC decision and the
President's November visit, now is the time to move forward.
Specific GVN actions over the next six weeks and a roadmap of
what it intends to do over the next year to advance religious
freedom would send a significant message that Vietnam is
committed to addressing our religious freedom concerns,
Ambassador Hanford said.


15. (SBU) DG Minh observed that Vice Foreign Minister Le Van
Bang's May 2005 letter to Ambassador Hanford is still valid,
and Vietnam continues to do what it committed to do in the
letter. The CRA had a plan for the Central Highlands and it
has a plan for the north, and there will be more progress
over the next six months. The CRA has already organized
three seminars to instruct trainers, and 500 officials at the
village and commune level have received training on
implementing the Ordinance on Religion and Belief. Over the
next six months, there will be further registrations of
congregations as well. But, we have to be realistic. There
are difficulties in some northern provinces, and it is not
realistic to expect major progress in six weeks. Vietnam
will do everything it can, not for the USG, but for the sake
of its own people, DG Minh said. DG Minh noted that, just as
the GVN promised progress in the Central Highlands, there
will also be progress in the north. However, after the
exchange of letters, expectations were high that Vietnam
would be removed from the CPC list. "Now people doubt that
you can do something," DG Minh said.


16. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford explained that the exchange of
letters was intended to address the issue of what the
Department was legislatively mandated to do under the
International Religious Freedom Act after Vietnam was
designated as a CPC. The CPC designation will be removed
when the problems that led to the designation have been
resolved. Vietnam is now close, but problems remain, and
many people are opposed to lifting CPC. DG Minh said that
Vietnam also has domestic constituencies, and the MFA would
like to try to find a way forward just as it would like to
have Vietnam's CPC designation removed.

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17. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford said that there are many things
that Vietnam can do over the next six weeks to resolve
continued issues of concern. Several of these are probably
already in the works and their roll-out would only need to be
accelerated. For example, the CRA could work with the ECVN
to identify mature congregations in the north and register
some 100 of them. A meaningful number of registrations would
show Vietnam's obvious commitment to implementing its legal
framework on religion. The GVN could also continue to
register congregations in other parts of the country, such as
the Mennonites, the Baptists and the 7th Day Adventists.


18. (SBU) Another issue that could quickly be addressed is
the lack of transparency in the registration process. The
CRA should play a greater leadership role in this area to
ensure that local officials do not tell different
congregations different things when they attempt to register.
The release or amnesty of religious prisoner of concern Ma
Van Bay would be another significant step. We understand
that his case is complicated. Notably, he was arrested in
1997 for church collections, something that would not be a
crime today. Our list of religious prisoners has, through
the GVN's actions, been shortened to one person -- Ma Van Bay
-- and it would be good if we could say that there are now no
more religious prisoners of concern on our list, Ambassador
Hanford noted.


19. (SBU) It would also be useful to see instances in which
the GVN holds officials accountable for violating the law
when it comes to religious rights. While forced
renunciations are increasingly rare, problems still occur,
such as when certain ethnic minority individuals are told to
renounce their faith in return for receiving a national ID
card. There are also incidents, such as the ongoing problem
in Thanh Hoa Province (Ref D). In terms of property issues,
there are one or two that could quickly be resolved,
including those involving a Catholic cathedral in Hanoi and
the ECVN's Hanoi church. However, we recognize that these
can be difficult because local authorities are involved.
Similarly, the establishment of a point of contact whom
religious groups could reach out to in case of problems with
local authorities would be another step forward, as would
facilitating meetings between the CRA and the ECVN.
Approving training for pastors would be another positive
gesture.


20. (SBU) In short, these are all specific steps that, if
taken over the next six weeks, would be very helpful in
advancing our mutual interest in resolving religious freedom
concerns. Furthermore, a roadmap of GVN intentions and
proposed actions over the next year would be a useful step
forward and show Vietnam's commitment to continue to work
with us. DG Minh pledged to pass all of this on to VFM Bang
(whom Ambassador Hanford was to meet on August 18, reported
septel).


21. (U) Ambassador Hanford cleared this message.
MARINE