GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTRY TO OPEN DIALOGUE WITH

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BERLIN 001654

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E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/08/2021
TAGS: PGOV SOCI KISL GM
SUBJECT: GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTRY TO OPEN DIALOGUE WITH
ISLAM

REF: (A) BERLIN 1069 (B) BERLIN 1070

Classified By: Acting PolCouns John Lister. Reason: 1.4(b) an (d)


1. (C) Summary. After weeks of media attention on
immigration and integration policy, German Interior Minister
Schaeuble has decided to organize a conference and meet
directly with representatives of a number of Islamic
organizations. The decision represents a significant policy
shift for the German government, which in the past has
rejected such direct dialogue. The conference, planned for
September, would start a 2-to-3 year dialogue meant to lead
to conclusion of an agreement between the state and the
organizations on the role of organized Islam in Germany.
Among the participants will be the "Islamic Community Mili
Goerus," previously seen as unacceptably fundamentalist and
potentially subversive, for which reason Schaeuble will
reportedly not meet directly with them. Also taking part
will be Ditib, the Turkish government-linked organization
that previously had rejected dialogue with other Islamic
organizations. Interior Ministry and some Islamic contacts
believe the Minister's step, taken on his own authority, is a
breakthrough in state-Islam relations in Germany. End
Summary.

Background
--------------


2. (C) Germany's relations with its primarily Turkish
immigrant Muslim community have been marked by a lack of
official contact between the government (at state and federal
levels) and Muslim organizations, especially since 9/11/2001.
Partly due to security concerns (many Muslim organizations
are under observation by federal and state Offices for the
Protection of the Constitution (OPC) as at least potentially
subversive),partly for German bureaucratic reasons, and
partly due to cultural-political reasons, politicians and
officials have generally avoided dialogue with Muslim groups.
Government contacts generally cite the lack of a single
umbrella organization with whom the government could speak as
a reason for rejecting dialogue with any one group. As
recently as May 10, Heidrun Tempel, responsible for religious
affairs in the Chancellery, repeated all of these arguments
for Poloff in explaining why Muslim organizations were
unlikely to be invited to the so-called "Integration Summit"
planned by the Chancellor before the summer break. However,
other contacts have indicated discomfort at the lack of
direct dialogue. Maximilian Mueller-Haerlin, Office Director
for Federal Integration Commissioner Boehmer indicated in
April that the Embassy's dialogue with Muslim groups could be
a positive example for the government. In a similar vein,
Muslim leaders last fall commented that it surprised them
that, although they had attended U.S.-hosted Iftaar dinners
(in some cases, more than once) in Germany, they had never
been invited to, or even heard of, a German government-hosted
Iftaar dinner.


3. (C) According to Interior Ministry A/S for Immigration and
Integration Lehnguth, the view that no dialogue was possible
with Muslim groups remains fairly widespread. Within the
Interior Ministry family, both the Federal Office of Criminal
Investigation (BKA) and OPC were against dialogue with groups
they consider subversive, even if non-violent. Schaeuble
simply overruled them, Lehnguth reported. Rainer Krappen, on
the Minister's staff, confirmed that the decision was the
Minister's. Lehnguth also dismissed opposition from CDU/CSU
members of parliament -- some of whom have argued that no
Muslim group in Germany is an acceptable dialogue partner.

Schaeuble's Plan
--------------


4. (C) According to Lehnguth, Schaeuble plans a first
"plenary" session of the dialogue in September. Participants
will be drawn from government, Muslim organizations, and from
among independent experts/NGOs. He mentioned specifically
Ditib, the Islamic Council, and the Central Council of
Muslims as invitees among Muslim organizations. Central
Council Spokesman Mounir Azzaoui told us other invitees might
include the Association of Islamic Cultural Centers, and the
Alaouite and the Ahmadiniya organizations. As experts,
Lehnguth mentioned several Muslim politicians, some
individuals who also have leading roles in Moslem groups, and
others, including author and Islam-critic Necla Kelek. After
the plenary, the dialogue would break into three working
groups - one each on work, ethics/values, and business as a
bridge to integration. Krappen clarified that the Ministry
saw a role for Mili Goerus in the working groups, but not in
the plenary, and that Mili Goerus would have no direct
contact with Schaeuble. (Note: Mili Goerus advocates the
eventual, peaceful introduction of Sharia into Germany.)

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5. (C) A two-to-three years process of dialogue on issues of
concern, such as Islamic instruction in German schools, would
ensue. The goal of the dialogue would be the conclusion of
an agreement between the groups (who might by them be
represented by a single umbrella organization) and the state
on Islam's role in the state, similar to agreements the two
major churches and the Jewish community have with the state.
Partially walking back previous German government views,
Lehnguth indicated considerable realism about the chances of
bringing the fissiparous Muslim community under a single
umbrella. Lehnguth indicated such an outcome would be
welcome, but that it was not essential to a successful
outcome.

Many Questions, But Overall Welcomed by Muslims
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6. (C) Asked his view of the dialogue plan, Ditib General
Secretary Yildirim said "dialogue is always better" than

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isolation, but said he had no information on the specifics
and that Ditib had not yet received an invitation. He
speculated that Interior Minister Schaeuble may be leading
the dialogue because the Chancellery did not believe it
possible to include Muslim groups in its "Integration
Summit." Yildirim was unwilling to give a view on the
participation of Mili Goerus or other groups absent a
decision by the Ditib Board on participation.


7. (C) Central Council Spokesman Azzaoui, who appeared quite
well-informed about the Ministry's plans, broadly welcomed
the dialogue, which he believed would also make a positive
contribution toward the establishment of an umbrella
organization representing most Muslim organizations. It was
particularly important, he said, that the Interior Ministry
was willing to invite Mili Goerus, because that was an
effective lever to ensure the participation of Ditib in the
dialogue. Ditib, by far the largest single Muslim
organization, has in the past generally rejected a broad
dialogue because of its size and quasi-official status.
Azzaoui, whose organization hopes to gain influence in an
umbrella organization, speculated that the Ministry might try
to steer the dialogue in that direction. He was concerned,
however, at Ministry plans to include a large number of
organizationally unaffiliated "experts" among the "Muslim"
participants in the dialogue. He asked what role
non-representative experts can play if the goal of the
dialogue is to reach an agreement between the government and
the Muslim organizations.


8. (C) Christian Hoffman, Director of the Muslim Academy, a
forum for unofficial dialogue, said he welcomed the
Minister's "statement that he will meet" with Muslim groups,
but was unhappy that the Ministry had not consulted with his
group. He said he was only aware of what had been in the
press and could not therefore comment more substantively, but
he also signaled some skepticism about whether the dialogue
would actually take place.

Working Level in Chancellery and Bundestag Not Informed
-------------- --------------


9. (C) Schaeuble's step was apparently not coordinated in
advance within the government - at least not below the
cabinet level. According to Heidrun Tempel, Chancellery
Office Director for Religious Affairs, she only knew what she
had read in the papers. She stressed that Ministers in
Germany have the authority to act within their own field, so
Schaeuble's step was not a problem. She did note that some
confusion had arisen between the Interior Ministry plans and
Chancellery plans for an "Integration Summit" in June. The
two, she stressed, were entirely separate and she foresaw no
specifically religious element in the Chancellery effort.
Michael Guentner, Office Director of CDU/CSU Caucus Chairman
Kauder, confirmed that Schaeuble's decision had also not been
made after consultation with the party caucus in the
Bundestag and that the question of the suitability of Islamic
groups for dialogues remains open in party ranks. "We still
have to get used to dialogue," he explained.

Comment: More Than Meets the Eye
--------------


10. (C) The details of Schaeuble's plan indicate a new
beginning mixed with a large measure of caution. In
particular, the Ministry's concern is evident in the decision
to keep Mili Goerus at arm's length and the inclusion of
non-representative "experts," many of whom may have a
liberal/secularist orientation, which the Ministry could use
to balance views it may find objectionable from Muslim
organizations The plenary/3 working group set-up and the

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diversity of Islamic interlocutors will make for a
complicated process. However, the specifics of the plan
should not obscure the significance of the move. Barbara
John, former Berlin Commissioner for Migration and
Integration, described it as the culmination of a too-long
but essential process of recognizing that the struggle
against terrorism can not be successful if non-violent (even
if conservative) Muslim groups are marginalized. And that
has been the political status of Muslim organizations until
Schaeuble's move, many observers agree. Until now, while
cities and states have had varying degrees of formal and
informal interaction with Muslim groups, the federal
government has lacked routine and even symbolic processes
(e.g., participation in annual public ceremonies) of
political engagement between organized Islam and the federal
state. The national political class, starting this fall, is
to begin to talk with, rather than just about, its Muslim
citizenry and population. End Comment.
TIMKEN