A/S SAUERBREY'S AUGUST 10 MEETING WITH UNHCR

C O N F I D E N T I A L BEIJING 016823

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR PRM, G AND EAP

E.O. 12958: DECL: AFTER KOREAN UNIFICATION


TAGS: PREL PREF PHUM KN KS CH TH
SUBJECT: A/S SAUERBREY'S AUGUST 10 MEETING WITH UNHCR
ACTING REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE

CLASSIFIED BY: DCM DAVID S. SEDNEY. REASONS 1.4 (B/D).


1. (C) SUMMARY: VISITING PRM ASSISTANT SECRETARY ELLEN
SAUERBREY MET AUGUST 10 WITH UNHCR ACTING REGIONAL
REPRESENTATIVE CHOOSIN NGAOTHEPPITAK TO DISCUSS NORTH KOREANS
IN CHINA AND OTHER REFUGEE ISSUES. REVIEWING EFFORTS TO PUSH
THE PRC TO LIVE UP TO ITS INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS AND
COOPERATE WITH UNHCR TO ASSIST NORTH KOREANS IN CHINA, A/S
SAUERBREY STRESSED OUR COMMITMENT TO SUPPORTING UNCHR'S
EFFORTS. CHOOSIN SAID THAT UNCHR IS CURRENTLY HOUSING 15
NORTH KOREAN ASYLUM-SEEKERS, BUT THAT THE PRC IS VERY SLOW TO
PROCESS SUCH CASES IN ORDER TO TRY TO LIMIT THE
ATTRACTIVENESS OF GOING TO UNCHR. END SUMMARY.


2. (C) PRM ASSISTANT SECRETARY ELLEN SAUERBREY, ACCOMPANIED
BY SENIOR ADVISOR CHARLOTTE PONTICELLI, MET AUGUST 10 WITH
UNHCR ACTING REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE CHOOSIN NGAOTHEPPITAK TO
DISCUSS NORTH KOREANS IN CHINA AND OTHER REFUGEE ISSUES.
CHOOSIN SAID UNHCR CURRENTLY IS HOUSING FIFTEEN NORTH KOREAN
ASYLUM-SEEKERS IN TWO APARTMENTS IN BEIJING. A SIXTEENTH
NORTH KOREAN, A 16-YEAR-OLD GIRL, HAS LEFT UNHCR CUSTODY (AND
HER MOTHER) TO GO VISIT HER BOYFRIEND IN SHENYANG. UNHCR CAN
CURRENTLY ACCOMMODATE PERHAPS AS MANY AS 20 IN ITS TWO
APARTMENTS. THE LONGEST WAIT IN UNHCR CUSTODY IS CURRENTLY
FOUR MONTHS, THOUGH CHOOSIN SAID UNHCR BELIEVES THAT THE
CHINESE MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SECURITY (MPS) IS FORCING
PROLONGED DELAYS TO MAKE GOING TO UNHCR LESS ATTRACTIVE FOR
THE NGOS AND BROKERS THAT WORK WITH NORTH KOREANS. HE
EXPECTS THAT THE NORTH KOREANS IN UNHCR CUSTODY MAY HAVE TO
WAIT FOR UP TO ONE YEAR FOR CASE RESOLUTION. IN ONE CASE,
THE MFA AGREED TO PERMIT THE DEPARTURE OF AN UNACCOMPANIED
MINOR TO JOIN HER MOTHER IN SOUTH KOREA "TWO MONTHS AGO," BUT
THE MPS HAS YET TO CONDUCT THE INTERVIEW IT REQUIRES BEFORE
ACTUALLY ALLOWING DEPARTURE FROM CHINA.

SAUERBREY: BEIJING MUST ABIDE BY OBLIGATIONS
--------------


3. (C) REVIEWING DISCUSSION WITH THE PRC ON NORTH KOREANS AT
THE GLOBAL ISSUES FORUM (GIF),A/S SAUERBREY SAID SHE AND U/S
DOBRIANSKY INSIST BEIJING MUST LIVE UP TO ITS OBLIGATIONS
UNDER THE REFUGEE CONVENTION AND ITS 1967 PROTOCOL. THEY
URGED CHINA TO ALLOW UNHCR TO PERFORM ITS MANDATED FUNCTION
OF PROTECTING REFUGEES AND DETERMINING WHO IS A REFUGEE AND
WHO IS AN ECONOMIC MIGRANT, STRESSING THAT THIS WOULD ALSO BE
HELPFUL TO THE PRC.

UNHCR: PRC CONTINUES TO STONEWALL
--------------


4. (C) CHOOSIN HIGHLIGHTED THAT UNHCR CONTINUES TO BE DENIED
ACCESS TO THE BORDER AREA NEXT TO THE DPRK AS WELL AS TO
INDIVIDUALS. DURING HIS MARCH VISIT, UNHCR HIGH COMMISSIONER
GUTERRES URGED CHINA TO STOP DEPORTATIONS OF NORTH KOREANS,
CREATE A "HUMANITARIAN SPACE" IN NORTHEAST CHINA FOR NORTH
KOREANS AND ALLOW UNHCR ACCESS TO INDIVIDUALS SEEKING
PROTECTION. NOTING THAT THE PRC WAS NOT RECEPTIVE, CHOOSIN
SAID THAT UNHCR WILL NEED A GREAT DEAL OF INTERNATIONAL
SUPPORT TO GET BEIJING TO CHANGE ITS POLICY. A/S SAUERBREY
EXPRESSED STRONG U.S. SUPPORT FOR HIGH COMMISSIONER GUTERRES'
POSITION, SAYING THAT WE ANTICIPATE THAT MORE NORTH KOREANS
WILL SEEK ASYLUM AND THAT WE WILL REFER THOSE WHO APPROACH US
TO UNHCR, AS IS OUR POLICY.

NORTH KOREANS WHO APPROACH UNHCR
--------------

5.(C) IN RESPONSE TO A/S SAUERBREYS QUESTION, CHOOSIN SAID
THAT MOST NORTH KOREANS WHO APPROACH UNHCR ARE REFERRED BY
NGOS, WHILE SOME ARE REFERRED BY THE U.S. EMBASSY. HE NOTED
THAT WHEREAS IN THE PAST, THE PRC ONLY ALLOWED UNHCR TO
INVOLVE ITSELF IN CASES WHERE NORTH KOREANS ENTERED UNHCR
PREMISES, IN THE LAST YEAR, THE PRC STARTED PERMITTING UNHCR
TO ASSERT PROTECTION OVER NORTH KOREANS WHO MADE CONTACT FROM
BEIJING AND EVEN OTHER PARTS OF CHINA. ASKED ABOUT THE
NUMBERS OF NORTH KOREANS WHO MIGHT WANT TO SEEK UNHCR
ASSISTANCE, CHOOSIN SAID THAT THEY WOULD BE QUITE LARGE
PROVIDED THE PRC AGREES. HE NOTED THAT UNHCR HAS RECEIVED
MORE APPROACHES SINCE WORD SPREAD THAT SOME NORTH KOREAN
REFUGEES HAD GONE TO THE UNITED STATES. ASKED ABOUT HOW MANY
MIGHT WANT TO GO TO THE UNITED STATES COMPARED TO THE ROK,
CHOOSIN SAID THAT MANY OF THE NORTH KOREANS SEEKING ASYLUM
ALREADY HAVE RELATIVES IN SOUTH KOREA. HOWEVER, THE
PERCEPTION THAT GOING TO THE UNITED STATES WAS POSSIBLE AND
MIGHT BE FASTER THAN GOING TO THE ROK WOULD ATTRACT MANY
NORTH KOREANS.

"PERSONS OF CONCERN" VICE REFUGEES


--------------


6. (C) IN RESPONSE TO A/S SAUERBREY'S QUESTION ABOUT HOW
UNHCR DETERMINES REFUGEE STATUS FOR NORTH KOREANS, CHOOSIN
SAID THAT UNHCR DOES NOT DO A FORMAL REFUGEE STATUS
DETERMINATION. IN ADDITION TO THE PRC'S REFUSAL TO PERMIT
DEPARTURE OF NORTH KOREANS IDENTIFIED AS REFUGEES, CHOOSIN
SAID THAT UNHCR FOLLOWS THE HIGH COMMISSIONER'S GUIDELINE
THAT NORTH KOREANS IN CHINA ARE ALL "OF CONCERN TO UNHCR."
BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF VERY SEVERE PUNISHMENTS IF
FORCIBLY RETURNED TO THE DPRK, UNHCR BELIEVES ALL NORTH
KOREANS IN CHINA ARE POTENTIAL PROTECTION CASES, REGARDLESS
OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY ENTERED AS ECONOMIC MIGRANTS. IN
RESPONSE TO SPECIAL ADVISOR PONTICELLI'S QUESTION ABOUT THE
STATUS OF NORTH KOREANS WHO MOVE BACK AND FORTH TO CONDUCT
TRADING ACTIVITIES, CHOOSIN SAID THAT UNHCR'S VIEW IS THAT
THE KEY FACTOR IS WHETHER NORTH KOREANS RETURN TO THE DPRK ON
THEIR OWN OR ARE FORCIBLY HANDED OVER TO PYONGYANG'S SECURITY
FORCES. IF THE LATTER, UNHCR BELIEVES THE POSSIBILITY OF
SEVERE PUNISHMENT CREATES PROTECTION CASES.

PRC/UNHCR LEGAL DISCUSSIONS?
--------------

7. (C) A/S SAUERBREY ASKED ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN HIGH COMMISSIONER GUTERRES AND CHINESE OFFICIALS TO
HOLD DISCUSSIONS ON RESOLVING CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN NATIONAL
SOVEREIGNTY AND THE OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE REFUGEE CONVENTION
AND ITS 1967 PROTOCOL. CHOOSIN SAID THAT AFM CUI TIANKAI HAD
AGREED TO LEAD A PRC TEAM TO HOLD TALKS IN GENEVA ON HIS WAY
TO THE INAUGURAL MEETING OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL.
HOWEVER, OTHER OBLIGATIONS HAD FORCED CUI TO BE REPLACED BY
ANOTHER DELEGATION HEAD WHO WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ISSUE.
UNHCR HAS BEEN UNABLE TO FIND A SUBSEQUENT TIME CONVENIENT
FOR CUI, ACCORDING TO CHOOSIN.

ROK ADMISSION POLICY
--------------


8. (C) IN RESPONSE TO A/S SAUERBREY'S QUESTION, CHOOSIN SAID
THAT THE ROK WILL NOT ACCEPT NORTH KOREANS WHO EXPRESS A
DESIRE TO GO TO A COUNTRY OTHER THAN SOUTH KOREA. HOWEVER,
IF THEY ARE FOUND INELIGIBLE FOR REFUGEE STATUS BY OTHER
COUNTRIES, CHOOSIN SAID THE ROK HAS EXPRESSED WILLINGNESS TO
ALLOW THE NORTH KOREANS TO "CHANGE THEIR MINDS" AND STATE A
DESIRE TO RESETTLE IN SOUTH KOREA.

OTHER REFUGEES
--------------


9. (C) REVIEWING OTHER UNHCR ISSUES IN CHINA, CHOOSIN SAID
THAT THIRD COUNTRY OR "URBAN" REFUGEES ARE A MAJOR FOCUS.
THERE ARE CURRENTLY APPROXIMATELY 300 FOREIGNERS IN CHINA WHO
HAVE APPROACHED UNHCR, MAINLY FROM AFRICAN COUNTRIES,
PAKISTAN AND SRI LANKA. UNHCR HAS DETERMINED ABOUT 150 TO BE
REFUGEES AND IS REVIEWING THE CASES OF THE OTHER 150,
ACCORDING TO CHOOSIN, WHO CHARACTERIZED THE PRC AS BEING
COOPERATIVE ON THESE CASES. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS COOPERATION
IS LIMITED ONLY TO ALLOWING THEM TO STAY IN CHINA AND TO
DEPART ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN OFFERED RESETTLEMENT. THE PRC
DOES NOT ALLOW THIRD-COUNTRY REFUGEES OR THOSE WHOSE CASES
ARE PENDING TO WORK OR HAVE ANY KIND OF LEGAL STATUS THAT
WOULD PERMIT THEM TO GET MARRIED OR GO TO SCHOOL. CHOOSIN
SAID THAT UNHCR HAS REFERRED MANY SUCH CASES TO THE UNITED
STATES FOR RESETTLEMENT.


10. (U) A/S SAUERBREY CLEARED THIS CABLE.
RANDT