Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05VATICAN530
2005-11-08 16:52:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Vatican
Cable title:  

VATICAN POSITIVE ON RUSSIA TRIP

Tags:  PHUM PREL KIRF VT RU 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000530 

SIPDIS


EUR/WE (JLARREA); EUR/RUS (GRONDELSKI, ARMSTRONG)
DRL/IRF (KELLY); EUR/RPM

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/8/2015
TAGS: PHUM PREL KIRF VT RU
SUBJECT: VATICAN POSITIVE ON RUSSIA TRIP

REF: A) VATICAN 0400; B) VATICAN 382; C) 04 VATICAN 1171; D) VATICAN 518

CLASSIFIED BY: Peter Martin, Pol/Econ Chief, Vatican, State.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)

-------
Summary
-------

C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000530

SIPDIS


EUR/WE (JLARREA); EUR/RUS (GRONDELSKI, ARMSTRONG)
DRL/IRF (KELLY); EUR/RPM

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/8/2015
TAGS: PHUM PREL KIRF VT RU
SUBJECT: VATICAN POSITIVE ON RUSSIA TRIP

REF: A) VATICAN 0400; B) VATICAN 382; C) 04 VATICAN 1171; D) VATICAN 518

CLASSIFIED BY: Peter Martin, Pol/Econ Chief, Vatican, State.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)

--------------
Summary
--------------


1. (C) Holy See FM Lajolo told the Ambassador November 3 that
his recent trip to Russia had been a useful step forward for
Vatican relations with Russia and the Orthodox Church (ROC).
Lajolo said he raised with Russian FM Lavrov the Holy See's
perception that Russia was captive to the Orthodox Church in its
diplomacy with the Vatican. Lavrov admitted that ROC interests
inevitably figured into the diplomatic equation, but insisted
that his government made its own decisions on Vatican diplomacy.
Lavrov brought up Ukraine, clearly concerned about the role the
Latin and Greek-rite Catholic Churches might play in orienting
the country further West, and then complained about a perceived
"double standard" on the part of the OSCE's Office of Democratic
Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) regarding Russia. ROC
Head of External Relations Metropolitan Kirill also raised the
Ukraine issue with Lajolo and addressed familiar themes of
alleged Catholic proselytism. According to Lajolo, the Kirill
meeting was "cordial," but the Vatican made its points on the
religious freedom issue by releasing the texts of interviews
Lajolo gave to Russian media outlets, calling for "equal dignity
and equal freedom" for Catholics in Russia. Though there may
have been few concrete results from the trip, Lajolo emphasized
that "all dialogue is positive." End Summary.

--------------
Step Forward
--------------


2. (C) Holy See FM-equivalent Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo told
the Ambassador during his November 3 welcome call that his
recent trip to Russia had been a useful step forward for Vatican
relations with Russia and the Orthodox Church (ROC). Lajolo
admitted that the trip had yielded few concrete accomplishments,
but said that in the broad context of Vatican interests in the
region, any step forward - even symbolic - was important.

-------------- ---
Russian Government - Orthodox Church Connections

-------------- ---


3. (C) Lajolo noted that an invitation from Russian FM Lavrov
in June had brought about the visit. Lajolo said that when he
met Lavrov, he did not shy away from perhaps the key point in
Vatican - Russian relations, raising with him the Holy See's
perception that Russia was captive to the Orthodox Church in its
diplomacy with the Vatican. Lavrov admitted that ROC interests
inevitably figured into the diplomatic equation, but insisted
that his government charted its course on Vatican diplomacy
independent of an ROC imprimatur. Lajolo told the Ambassador he
was not naive about Orthodox influence upon the government, and
noted that President Putin's wife had strong ties to the ROC.

--------------
Ukraine a Concern
--------------


4. (C) Lajolo half-joked that he tried to avoid talking about
Ukraine with Lavrov, but the Russian FM brought it up anyway,
clearly concerned about the role the Latin and Greek-rite
Catholic Churches might play in orienting the country further
West. It was no news to Lajolo that the Russians saw these
churches -- and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - as a potential
threat to Russian cultural influence. Moreover, in previous
conversations with Post about the Ukrainian election
controversy, Holy See officials have praised the role of
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, whose public
statements boosted the ORANGE Revolution (ref b). These
sentiments notwithstanding, Lajolo said he assured Lavrov that
the Catholic Church had no intention of trying to influence the
Ukraine's balance between East and West.

--------------
"Special" Relations with Russia
--------------


5. (C) Lajolo discussed with the Ambassador the "relations of a
special nature" established between the Holy See and Russia in
1990 with an exchange of "representatives with the rank of
ambassador" rather than fully accredited ambassadors. In Russia
Lajolo had told the press that the current state of relations
did not reflect the weight that each state wielded in the world,
and he opened the door for an upgrade in relations. With the
Ambassador, Lajolo did not place as much emphasis on this issue,


though he noted that the state of relations was on full display
at the many papal events at the Vatican, at which the Russian
chief of mission had to sit in protocol order behind all the
other ambassadors.

--------------
OSCE Complaints
--------------


6. (C) Lavrov also brought up the OSCE with Lajolo, charging
that the organization (in particular the OSCE's Office of
Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, ODIHR) operated with a
"double standard" between Russia and Western Europe. Lavrov
complained that ODIHR operated too independently of OSCE
leadership. [Note: The Holy See is a full member of the OSCE
and has engaged us on some OSCE issues. In this case, Lajolo
did not give an opinion on the Russian charges. End note.]

--------------
Kirill Hits Familiar Themes
--------------


7. (C) Lajolo also met with ROC Head of External Relations
Metropolitan Kirill (ROC Patriarch Alexi was out of town, and
Kirill is Lajolo's counterpart in any case). He was encouraged
by Kirill's pledge to work with the Holy See on the promotion of
common values in an increasingly secular Europe, though this did
not break new ground in Catholic-ROC relations. Kirill, too,
raised the issue of Catholic influence in Ukraine, but Lajolo
noted that members of the Latin and Greek rites of the Catholic
Church in Ukraine had ongoing intra-Catholic disputes. They
might not be as likely as Kirill feared, Lajolo said, to join
with the Ukrainian Orthodox to pull the country away from
Russia.


8. (C) No Catholic-ROC discussion is complete without ample
charges of Catholic proselytism, and Kirill did not disappoint.
Lajolo recounted for the Ambassador the traditional Catholic
frustrations on the issue. The ROC viewed its lands as its
private "hunting ground" - canonical territory in which only the
ROC should hold sway, Lajolo explained. He emphasized that the
Catholic Church had no program or interest in converting members
of the Russian Orthodox Church. Lajolo complained, however,
that in ROC eyes, even Russian atheists without the slightest
connection to the ROC were off limits, and innocuous Catholic
social programs for the poor or Catholic-run orphanages were
regarded as part of a grand plot to undermine the Orthodox.
"Only now," Lajolo observed, was the ROC starting to engage in
social justice issues. Once the Orthodox started to realize
that such engagement was a legitimate aspect of a church's
mission not necessarily connected to proselytism, he said, he
hoped they would be less suspicious of Catholic endeavors.

--------------
Vatican Releases Interview Texts
--------------


9. (SBU) While the meeting with Kirill was "cordial," the Holy
See made its point on the religious freedom issue by releasing
the texts of interviews Lajolo gave to Russian media outlets.
In the interviews, the Holy See FM urged Russian Orthodox
authorities to concede the country's Catholics "equal dignity
and equal freedom," while at the same time acknowledging the
Orthodox Church's "predominant position." Lajolo emphasized
that the small Catholic community in the country was "truly
Russian" - something he also emphasized to the Ambassador.
Though Russia's Catholics are predominantly of Polish and German
extraction, Lajolo pointed out that the community has deep roots
in Russia. He admitted that Catholic Church leadership in
Russia was often foreign.

--------------
Papal Visit
--------------


10. (C) As for a papal visit to Russia - long sought by Pope
John Paul II - Lajolo commented publicly that Pope Benedict XVI
would not visit the country if it did not contribute to greater
understanding and agreement between Catholics and Russian
Orthodox. Privately, he told us that despite the pope's
emphasis on closer unity with the Orthodox, we should not expect
a papal visit to Russia soon.

--------------
Comment
--------------


11. (C) Lajolo was very open with the Ambassador in their
initial meeting, and the two touched on several issues. In
response to comments from the FM, the Ambassador outlined the
President's plans to combat avian flu, and he encouraged the
Holy See to continue its strong statements against terrorism,


such as the pope made recently in Cologne (ref d).


12. (C) But having just returned from the East, Lajolo's main
focus was still Russia. He was under no illusions about the
pace of improved relations with the ROC, and observed that the
road would be difficult, as the Russians continued to be
suspicious of the West. Still, Lajolo maintained that trips
such as his could help continue dialogue and build relations.
He was pleased that a joint Catholic-Orthodox theological
commission would be reinvigorated after his trip. This may be
nothing more than a "chance for us to sit down and drink some
tea - or vodka," Lajolo said, "but all dialogue is positive."

ROONEY


SANDROLINI


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2005VATICA00530 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL