Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05VATICAN489
2005-07-01 14:14:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Vatican
Cable title:  

AFTER TENSIONS, VATICAN SEEKING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE

Tags:  PREL PGOV EPET VE VT EUN 
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C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000489 

SIPDIS


DEPT. FOR EUR/WE JLEVIN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/1/2015
TAGS: PREL PGOV EPET VE VT EUN
SUBJECT: AFTER TENSIONS, VATICAN SEEKING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE
RELATIONSHIP WITH VENEZUELA

REF: A) STATE 117165 B) STATE 121641 (NOTAL) C) USEU BRUSSELS 2481

CLASSIFIED BY: D. Brent Hardt, Charge D'Affaires, EXEC, STATE.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)

-----------
Summary
-----------

C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000489

SIPDIS


DEPT. FOR EUR/WE JLEVIN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/1/2015
TAGS: PREL PGOV EPET VE VT EUN
SUBJECT: AFTER TENSIONS, VATICAN SEEKING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE
RELATIONSHIP WITH VENEZUELA

REF: A) STATE 117165 B) STATE 121641 (NOTAL) C) USEU BRUSSELS 2481

CLASSIFIED BY: D. Brent Hardt, Charge D'Affaires, EXEC, STATE.
REASON: 1.4 (b),(d)

--------------
Summary
--------------


1. (C) Holy See Deputy Foreign Minister Pietro Parolin told
the Charge that the Vatican had decided to pursue the path of
dialogue and offer "an outstretched hand" when dealing with the
government of Venezuela, despite past tensions. In response to
ref (a) and (b) points and inquiries, Parolin said that after a
period of difficult relations, the Holy See saw some signs of
"new hope" for a thaw, pointing to Venezuela's recent
appointment of a new ambassador to the Holy See after a long
gap. He said the confrontational relationship between the
former papal nuncio to Venezuela and President Chavez had not
been productive, so the Holy See was now trying to engage Chavez
rather than isolate him. Pope Benedict will be on vacation
outside of Rome from July 11-28, and would be unavailable for an
audience with President Chavez if he sought one at that time.
However, Parolin and Holy See Country Director for Venezuela
Monsignor Nicolas Thevenin indicated that, if Chavez asked for a
papal audience, he would almost certainly be granted such an
audience in line with Holy See's tradition of granting audiences
to Heads of State from states with whom they have diplomatic
relations. No such request has yet been received. End Summary.

--------------
An Outstretched Hand
--------------


2. (C) Holy See Deputy Foreign Minister Pietro Parolin told
the Charge June 30 that the Vatican had decided to pursue the
path of dialogue and offer "an outstretched hand" when dealing
with the government of Venezuela after a very difficult period
in the Church's relations with President Chavez. Parolin said
the Vatican feared that further isolation would drive Chavez
closer to Castro and encourage the radicalization in his
policies we were seeking to avoid. Charge outlined U.S.
concerns about the regime, which poloff had reviewed earlier in

the day with Holy See Country Director for Venezuela Monsignor
Nicolas Thevenin. Parolin shared U.S. concerns, but insisted
that confrontation would not help the situation.

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Signs of a New Climate in Relations
--------------


3. (C) DFM Parolin, more than Thevenin, emphasized what he
termed signs of a "new climate in relations" between the Holy
See and Venezuela, which lead him to view the situation "with
new hope." Parolin pointed to the appointment of a new
ambassador to the Holy See from Venezuela, after a long gap with
a CDA in place, as an example of President Chavez's intention to
improve relations with the Holy See. Parolin said the new
ambassador, Ivan Guillermo Rincon Urdaneta, had told him his
government was anxious to restart open dialogue with the
Vatican. Parolin found him to be an open and frank
interlocutor, as he had not been afraid to acknowledge problems
in the relationship.

--------------
Conflict Did Not Help Matters
--------------


4. (C) Given the downward slide and mutual recriminations that
had characterized Chavez's relations with the Church over the
past two years, Parolin said the Holy See had decided that a
personal, open approach to Chavez was the most likely way to
improve relations. "The personal conflicts between [the former
papal nuncio to Venezuela, Archbishop Andre] Dupuy and Chavez
didn't get us anywhere," he said. Nevertheless, Thevenin
insisted that Dupuy was not yanked from his post early because
of his criticism of the government; in fact, he insisted that
the Holy See had left him in place until he was due for his
normal rotation to be sure no one got the idea that the Vatican
was silencing him. For reasons not entirely clear, Venezuela
gave agreement to the new nuncio quickly, but has not yet
arranged for him to present his credentials formerly. Parolin
indicated that the Holy See was delaying Ambassador Rincon
Urdaneta's presentation of credentials until after the nuncio
had been able to present his own credentials.

--------------
Papal Audience?


--------------


5. (C) Pope Benedict is due to be out of Rome on vacation from
July 11-28, so if a Chavez visit to Italy occurred in this
window, there would be no danger of a papal audience for him.
The Holy See has also limited private audiences for visiting
dignitaries in August, when the pope stays at his summer
residence at Castel Gandolfo. Parolin and Thevenin both told us
that the Holy See had as yet received no request for an
audience, though they had heard rumor of a possible visit to
Rome. They both made it clear that Pope Benedict would see
Chavez if he sought a papal audience while the pope was in Rome.
"This is always our modus operandi," Parolin said. "We seek to
influence by open dialogue." Still, Thevenin said that Pope
Benedict would use such an occasion to register Vatican concerns
with Chavez, perhaps most forcefully in private remarks. We
remarked upon the public relations value of a papal audience or
any high-level Vatican appointment for Chavez, and noted that
the government of Venezuela could spin such an event to its
advantage if the Holy See did not make its concerns about
government abuses very clear -- publicly.

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Waiting for the New Archbishop
--------------


6. (C) Parolin seemed optimistic that the government of
Venezuela would soon agree to the appointment of a new
archbishop for Caracas, perhaps another indication of the new
atmosphere ushered in by the new ambassadorial appointment. He
noted that under the agreement between the two countries, the
government could block the appointment of a bishop it deemed
unacceptable politically. "We don't have to appoint a Chavez
supporter, but we can't install a strong opponent," Parolin
said. Thevenin was more troubled by the delay in approving the
Vatican's current choice. He told us that the Vatican's man
should not be objectionable to the government, and implied that
there was really no reason to block him other than to obstruct
church business.

-------------- --------------
Cuba - Venezuela Connection a Concern
-------------- --------------


7. (C) While Parolin acknowledged ongoing challenges to civil
liberties and democratic society in Venezuela, Thevenin engaged
more deeply on these issues. He said he was particularly
concerned about the growing Cuba-Venezuela connection, going so
far as to say he thought that the anti-American rhetoric coming
out of Caracas "had been written in Havana." He said the many
Cuban doctors and nurses working in Venezuela did not worry him
as much as the groups of Cuban "teachers and sociologists" who
were training their counterparts in Venezuela. The doctors and
nurses, are of course indoctrinated before leaving Cuba,
Thevenin said, but "they're just trying to make some money."
"It's the teachers who can really influence society," he
concluded. Thevenin also expressed concern about ref (a) points
re the Venezuelan government's lack of cooperation on terrorism
and narco-trafficking, which the Charge emphasized to Parolin.

--------------
Comment
--------------


8. (C) In its dealings with countries of concern such as
Venezuela, the Holy See generally opts for dialogue over
confrontation. Venezuela had initially been an exception to
this rule, and Venezuelan bishops took a high profile role in
political developments, speaking out strongly against the
government. Having seen little of value from this approach, the
Holy See has now decided to try engagement, even while it
recognizes that the road ahead will be rocky. Monsignor
Thevenin, an experienced Vatican diplomat of mixed
French-Italian heritage "with many relatives in the U.S.," may
be able to help push the Vatican to do more in addressing
concerns for political liberties, civil society, and
narco-trafficking. He took over as country director for Cuba
and Venezuela two months ago, and, in our conversation took a
subtly but decidedly harder line than Parolin. His recent
posting of over two years at the papal nunciature in Havana
(where he said he had good contact with USINT Havana) may have
contributed to these views. By contrast, the new nuncio in
Caracas is not considered one of the Holy See's stronger
nuncios, though one official said he could "surprise." Even as
the Vatican tries to reengage with Venezuela, it will almost
certainly use occasions for dialogue to reinforce its concerns
for the country's political direction, which could minimize any
public relations value that the GoV might seek to gain from such
contacts. The Vatican will almost certainly encourage and back
local bishops in their own stands against abuses at home and in
support of democratic institutions and independent civil society


groups, but will rarely want to get out in front of the local
episcopate.

HARDT


NNNN

2005VATICA00489 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL