ACTING COORDINATOR POPE DISCUSSES COUNTERTERRORISM

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 TEL AVIV 001078

SIPDIS

DEPT FOR S/CT AND NEA/IPA

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/14/2015
TAGS: PTER PREL KPAL KWBG IS COUNTERTERRORISM GOI EXTERNAL ISRAEL RELATIONS ISRAELI PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS
SUBJECT: ACTING COORDINATOR POPE DISCUSSES COUNTERTERRORISM
ISSUES WITH ISRAELI OFFICIALS

Classified By: Political Counselor Norm Olsen; Reasons: 1.4 (B) and (D)
.


1. (C) SUMMARY: In a series of meetings February 9-12,
Israeli officials told Acting Counterterrorism Coordinator
William Pope that Hizballah is the GOI's top CT priority.
They requested USG assistance to convince President Chirac
that the group should be placed on the EU's list of terrorist
organizations. The Israelis stressed the "central role" of
the Joint Counterterrorism Working Group (JCG) in the
bilateral CT dialogue and asked for the sub-working groups to
be expanded. The Israeli MFA sought assistance in
establishing better contacts with the Department of Homeland
Security. Israeli military analysts briefed PDAS Pope on
successful efforts to interdict funding for HAMAS and on the
evolving global threat of "jihadist" groups. An Israeli
academic predicted that the number of suicide bombings will
decrease if the Palestinian Authority (PA) successfully
manages the peace process. END SUMMARY.


2. (SBU) Acting Counterterrorism Coordinator William Pope and
S/CT desk officer Michael Miller visited Israel February 9-12
for discussions with Israeli counterterrorism experts. At
the MFA, PDAS Pope met with Deputy Director General for North
America Yoram Ben-Zeev, Deputy Director General for Strategic
Affairs Jeremy Issacharoff, Counterterrorism Director Yehuda
Yaakov, Counterterrorism desk officer Avivit Bar-Ilan, Head
of the Military Intelligence World Jihad Branch Lt. Col Yoav
Peleg, and military intelligence analyst Capt. Ayal
Paskovich. PDAS Pope later met in Tel Aviv with a group that
included Israeli National Security Council Counterterrorism
Director General Danny Arditi, NSC CT Deputy for
International Cooperation Amnon Zehavi, NSC Advisor for
Terrorism Finance Lt. Col. Udi Levi, and NSC Advisor for
Intelligence Uzi Shaya.

-------------- --
Israeli Focus is on EU Designation of Hizballah
-------------- --


3. (C) Ben-Zeev cautioned that Hizballah is utilizing its
"deadly combination" of state-sponsorship, money, and
ideology ... to kill disengagement and the peace process."
Noting that Hizballah is Israel's top CT priority,
Issacharoff said the GOI had formally asked the EU to
designate Hizballah as a terrorist organization and has
demarched at high levels in Brussels, EU capitals, Tel Aviv,
and Jerusalem. Issacharoff provided a copy of a classified
paper titled "legal reference concerning Hizballah terrorist
organization," which Israel hopes will satisfy EU requests
for legal documentation to justify a designation. PDAS Pope
noted the USG's strong support on this issue.


4. (C) According to Issacharoff, CT talks with the French
have focused on Hizballah, where the GOI sees Paris as "the
head of the snake" resisting EU designation. He said his
French colleagues had told the GOI that the Lebanese
government had asked President Chirac to oppose adding
Hizballah to the EU terrorism list. Issacharoff stressed
that changing Chirac's mind is "the key" to success on this
issue. He added that the GOI is providing additional
intelligence to Paris and telling French officials that if
they are serious about wanting an EU role in the peace
process, then "they have to step up to the plate and swing."
Issacharoff thanked the USG for support on the Hizballah
issue and requested additional U.S. engagement with Chirac.
Yaakov noted the importance of the UK, complaining that
London was taking a "calculated risk" that might result in
the EU designating only a part of Hizballah as a terrorist
organization.


5. (C) Peleg said that most of Hizballah's recruitment in the
territories is focused on Fatah members and takes place
during the hajj. Ben-Zeev asked how Israel should respond to
provocation without risking an end to the peace progress.
PDAS Pope urged the Israelis not to let terror dictate their
actions and to stick to their pledge to move ahead with
disengagement.

--------------
Importance of the JCG and other CT Fora
--------------


6. (C) Issacharoff stressed the "central role" of the Joint
Counterterrorism Working Group (JCG) in the bilateral CT
dialogue. He said Israel has much to offer the USG and state
governments in the CT field. PDAS Pope agreed, noting that
the next session of the JCG could take place after the White
House names a replacement for S/CT Coordinator Cofer Black.
Issacharoff emphasized the importance of the JCG working
groups, especially the Technical Support Working Group
(TSWG). Both Ben-Zeev and Issacharoff favored the creation
of a separate homeland security working group under the JCG.
Yaakov urged the USG to consider an additional working group
focused on legal and "diplomatic" issues. Ben-Zeev asked if
the USG would consider adding terrorism to other bilateral
dialogues, as well, including the forum raised by FM Silvan
Shalom during his meeting with the Secretary on February 6.
Note: Ben-Zeev later told the Ambassador that the MFA wants
CT included in lower-level talks, not the D-level dialogue
that the GOI is pushing. End note.


7. (C) Both Issacharoff and Ben-Zeev asked for assistance in
establishing better contacts with the Department of Homeland
Security, including on biometrics. They claimed that the GOI
is frustrated by its inability to establish a more productive
relationship with DHS. They offered to brief S/CT on Israeli
projects currently underway with other USG departments and
individual state governments, suggesting that these efforts
could be better coordinated in a homeland security working
group under the JCG. PDAS Pope noted that the creation of a
DHS liaison office in S/CT would also help to improve the
situation. Yaakov noted that the GOI will discuss El Al's
plans to install flares and other countermeasures on its
aircraft with the USG at a meeting on April 7. He suggested
that the USG and Israel expand the MANPADS dialogue to
include all uses of rocketry by terrorists.


8. (C) Issacharoff said that Israel has increased its
counterterrorism contacts over the past two years with other
states, including India, Spain, Canada, Norway, Argentina,
Russia, Australia, Germany, France, and the UK. He added
that the GOI is also hoping to restart the joint CT/arms
control dialogue with the Chinese that was suspended during
the Phalcon dispute. Addressing multilateral CT efforts,
Yaakov requested USG support for at least one of the two
Israeli candidates running for legal and law enforcement
expert positions on the UN's Counterterrorism Executive
Directorate (CTED).

-------------- -
Israeli Briefings on HAMAS and Jihadist Groups
-------------- -


9. (C) Paskovich said U.S., EU, Saudi, and Israeli efforts
have left HAMAS finances "in the worst shape ever." Peleg
warned of "increasing" contacts between Tehran and the
military wing of HAMAS, which Paskovich claimed receives USD
$3-4 million of Iranian assistance per year. Paskovich
stressed the importance of cutting off other funding from the
Gulf states and Europe, as well as the need for an
alternative charity-distribution system in the West Bank and
Gaza. He maintained that HAMAS still receives support
through groups in France and through the INTERPAL
organization based in the UK. Yaakov expressed concern that
the EU will ease pressure on HAMAS if further progress is
made in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.


10. (C) Peleg listed several characteristics of the
"jihadist" movement: a hatred of "the west;" the "paradox of
success," whereby attacks lead to disruptions in leadership
and organizational structures; a desire to increase the
number and scope of attacks; the development of local
infrastructures; the exploitation of "holes in the GWOT,"
such as Syria and Iran; and the persistence of a
15,000-50,000 cadre of terrorists. Peleg said such groups
are exploiting "jihadist arenas" such as Iraq, adopting bin
Laden's agenda to what were formerly local groups, and
building "home-grown" infrastructure. He predicted that
these trends will lead to growing decentralization, new
command structures, and "new foci of instability" around the
globe.


11. (C) PDAS Pope agreed that successful attacks on al-Qaida
have led to a diffusion of terrorist command structures and
organization. He briefed the Israelis on the Riyadh
counterterrorism conference, noting that delegates had agreed
that there is no excuse for terrorism. He said that the
Saudis see al-Qaida as "an existential threat." Issacharoff
expressed hope that further progress on the
Israeli-Palestinian talks will result in closer cooperation
with the Gulf states, whose rulers he said are also
threatened by al-Qaida.

-------------- --------------
An Israeli Academic's Analysis of Suicide Bombers
-------------- --------------


12. (C) In a lunch hosted by Issacharoff, PDAS Pope discussed
the motives of suicide bombers with Yoram Schweitzer, a
terrorism expert at the Jaffee Center for Strategic Affairs.
Schweitzer, who has interviewed numerous prisoners
apprehended before they could commit bombings or after
attacks had failed, credited Israeli security services with
decreasing the number of bombings. He maintained that the
Palestinians realize that such attacks are ineffective and
said even HAMAS is "rethinking its course." Schweitzer
listed three conditions for a further reduction in attacks:
the PA must provide Palestinians with hope; obtain a
reduction of Israeli pressure, such as checkpoints; and limit
anti-Semitic incitement. He cautioned, however, that peace
talks may not decrease the number of Palestinian volunteers,
noting the large number of suicide attacks that occurred
during what he termed the last "quiet" period in
Israeli-Palestinian relations.


13. (C) Schweitzer claimed that outside the territories
bombers are not motivated by the Arab-Israeli conflict, but
by humiliation vis-a-vis the "West" and by the desire to
overthrow local governments by attacking their "Western"
supporters. He said al-Qaida is a separate case; bin Laden
wants to control Saudi Arabia, obtain an "Islamic bomb," and
"liberate" areas such as Andalusia. In Schweitzer's opinion,
only Islamic religious authorities can deal with the root
causes of hostility towards the "West."


14. (U) Acting Coordinator Pope has cleared this message.

********************************************* ********************
Visit Embassy Tel Aviv's Classified Website:
http://www.state.sgov.gov/p/nea/telaviv

You can also access this site through the State Department's
Classified SIPRNET website.
********************************************* ********************
KURTZER