CONVERSATION WITH JOSE DIRCEU, OCTOBER 9, 2005

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 SAO PAULO 001158

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/12/2015
TAGS: PINR PGOV BR
SUBJECT: CONVERSATION WITH JOSE DIRCEU, OCTOBER 9, 2005

REF: A. BRASILIA 2219


B. BRASILIA 2687 AND PREVIOUS

Classified By: ACTING CONSUL GENERAL ARNOLD VELA. REASON: E.O.
12958,
1.4(D)


1. (C) Summary: While transiting through Sao Paulo, Brasilia
TDY poloff attended an October 9 lunch with friends at which
Federal Deputy and former Lula Chief of Staff Jose Dirceu was
present. During their 30-minute conversation, Dirceu shared
his views on the political crisis, the future of the
Workers, Party (PT),prospects for political reform, and his
own current status and plans for the future. End summary.


2. (C) Dirceu appeared well and reasonably relaxed. During
the course of the meal, he talked mostly about his own
family, cuisine, travel and personal things he wanted to do
in the future. It was striking that, on the day of the
decisive second round of the PT internal elections, he had
fully four hours to devote to this kind of activity. His
cell phone only rang three or four times. Several of these
calls appeared related to efforts by the opposition to accuse
his son of committing irregularities, which obviously
irritated him. Following the meal, TDY poloff had the
opportunity to chat one-on-one with Dirceu for about thirty
minutes.


3. (C) Compared to previous conversations -- just after
his resignation from the Planalto in June and again in late
August (ref A) -- Dirceu was less critical of the government
and more optimistic about Lula,s prospects for re-election
next year. As opposed to flatly predicting the President
would lose, he now thinks there will be a competitive race,
the result of which is currently unforeseeable. With respect
to the PT election for national president, he predicted
(accurately) that Ricardo Berzoini would win narrowly, with
about 52 percent of the vote. He did not anticipate that the
new, more left-leaning composition of the national
directorate would cause much of a problem within the party or
for the government. In response to a question about the
possible "re-radicalization8 of the Brazilian left over the
mid- and longer-term, Dirceu had the following observations:
The PT ) more or less as it is today ) would continue to
dominate the left side of the Brazilian political system. A
few more defections might well take place, which he indicated
he would even be pleased to see, but no single mass-based
party would emerge to the PT,s left. And no one within its
loyal ranks would take it back to the old (far left-wing)
posture during the post-Lula period. In an interesting aside,
Dirceu averred that ) all modesty aside ) he was the only
one who could carry off such a volte-face, but he had no
intention of doing so because &of the kind of person he is
and the fact it would be bad for the country.8


4. (C) As on previous occasions, Dirceu did not appear
very interested in the issue of political reform, or in the
details or specifics of any such reform. He acknowledged
that candidates, including Lula, would have to use reform as
a campaign theme. In this context, Dirceu admitted that he
himself had habitually spent twice what he had reported on
his own campaigns and that all Brazilian politicians employed
some form of &caixa dois8 (unaccounted or unreported
funds). While bothered by the hypocrisy of his current
adversaries on this score, Dirceu considered this practice
natural and even unavoidable in a country where &politicians
do not like to be seen taking money and donors do not like to
be seen giving it.8


5. (C) With respect to his own situation, Dirceu intends
to continue vigorously defending himself against anything but
acceptance of general political responsibility for the
current problems of the PT and the Lula administration.
According to him, he is on good terms with the government but
it is not helping him much ) and he neither wants nor needs
any favors from the President,s office. Nevertheless,
Dirceu still expects to be expelled from Congress and
deprived of the right to run again for eight years, and he
seemed on this occasion somewhat less sure than previously
that this result could be paralyzed or reversed in the
courts. But he regards any such judgment as a purely
political one. By his lights, in contrast to most of the
other accused Congressmen, there are no concrete proofs of
wrongdoing on his part, and the congressional ethics
committee lacks jurisdiction in his case, since he was not
acting as a federal deputy when any of the acts he is accused
of were committed. He would, however, have to accept
whatever eventually happens. His strategy now is to keep his
head down and work to maintain the enduring influence he
still retains within the party.


6. (C) In this regard, Dirceu strongly reiterated his
interest in coming to the United States during the
December-February period for the purpose of decompressing,
working on a book and learning English. For the first time,
he began making concrete inquiries about such practical
matters as, for example, a visa, where he should stay in the
U.S., and what he should do there. Poloff was non-committal
but promised to talk with him again in Brasilia.

7. (U) This message was coordinated with Embassy Brasilia.

VELA