Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05HANOI2511
2005-09-29 06:45:00
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Embassy Hanoi
Cable title:  

EAP DAS Eric John's Meeting with Communist Party

Tags:  PREL PGOV PINR KN VM DPRK 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 002511 

SIPDIS

SENSITIVE

DEPT PASS TO EAP/MLS; EAP/RSP

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PREL PGOV PINR KN VM DPRK
SUBJECT: EAP DAS Eric John's Meeting with Communist Party
External Affairs Director

Ref: Hanoi 2154

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 002511

SIPDIS

SENSITIVE

DEPT PASS TO EAP/MLS; EAP/RSP

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PREL PGOV PINR KN VM DPRK
SUBJECT: EAP DAS Eric John's Meeting with Communist Party
External Affairs Director

Ref: Hanoi 2154


1. (SBU) Summary: EAP Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Eric John met Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Commission on
External Affairs Director for the Western Europe and
Americas Department Pham Tien Nhien at the CPV headquarters
September 27. The Ambassador, EAP Mainland Southeast Asia
Director Scot Marciel and PolOff accompanied him. Nhien
engaged in lengthy paeans to the health of the bilateral
relationship and pointed out ideological connections between
Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ho Chi Minh. He
acknowledged that some bad feelings between Americans and
Vietnamese still exist, and must be addressed, but
proclaimed the bilateral relationship to be on a "solid
foundation." He and DAS John exchanged views on North
Korea, and Nhien lamented Vietnam's lack of influence over
the regime and inability to persuade the DPRK to follow the
Vietnamese economic reform model. End Summary.


2. (SBU) Opening the discussion, Nhien apologized for the
torrential rain and high wind, noting that Vietnam was
enduring the worst typhoon to hit the country in decades.
In the previous 24 hours, Vietnam had evacuated more than
300,000 residents of high-risk coastal areas, more than had
ever been evacuated for a storm before. Despite the
typhoon, he said, Vietnam and the CPV welcomed DAS John's
visit.

DPRK
--------------


3. (SBU) Nhien observed that DAS John's previous assignment
was as Political Minister/Counselor in Seoul and asked if he
would provide information on the recent round of six-party
talks, to which DAS John provided a general readout. In
response to Nhien's question about a recent news report that
Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific
Affairs Christopher Hill would travel to Pyongyang, DAS
John said he had heard no official information on any
possible trip to North Korea. On the subject of North
Korea, however, DAS John expressed the USG's appreciation
for Vietnam's "humanitarian" treatment of sensitive
situations involving DPRK refugees in Vietnam. He
recognized that relations between North Korea and Vietnam
are both "special and difficult" and said that the GVN's

actions on behalf of the refugees, while possibly negative
for Vietnam's relations with Pyongyang, would be positive
for its relations with other countries.


4. (SBU) Nhien said that during his visit to Washington,
D.C., in July 2005, he had the opportunity to have some
discussions on the subject of North Korea and refugees with
several interlocutors, including Senate Foreign Relations
Committee senior staffer Keith Luse. Luse and others had
asked him to help leverage Vietnam's relationship with the
DPRK to promote "productive developments" on the Korean
Peninsula. Vietnam acknowledges that its relations with the
DPRK are more substantial and better than U.S.-DPRK
relations, and that over the past few months there have been
improvements in Hanoi-Pyongyang ties. However, the actual
influence of Vietnam over the DPRK remains extremely
limited. The North Koreans "love their Juche doctrine of
self-reliance, and no matter what others say, they act on
their own." If anyone at all has influence over North
Korea, Nhien concluded, it must be the Chinese.


5. (SBU) Nhien warned that the United States must focus more
on developing its relationship with the DPRK. "I have a
feeling that there is not enough trust between the North
Korean people and the United States," he said confidently.
"From the U.S. side, you don't trust the North Korean
willingness to follow through on their commitments. From
the North Korean side, they are afraid that if they give
away their nuclear weapons, they could be attacked."
Without trust, he said, an agreement is impossible. This
was an observation he said he made as an official of
Vietnam, a country familiar with a distrustful relationship
with the United States.

Bilateral Relations Strong, but Mistrust Remains
-------------- ---


6. (SBU) Turning to U.S.-Vietnam relations, Nhien said that
in past years there have been many improvements, and the
level of mutual trust has been elevated "to a great extent."
The peak of the relationship in recent years was reached
during the successful visit of Prime Minister Phan Van Khai
to Washington in June. "The road from mistrust to
confidence has been a long one, and even now I would
hesitate to say we have full confidence in each other."
That residual lack of confidence is "understandable," he
explained, "because prejudice remains among parts of the
U.S. and Vietnamese peoples." He cited the 2004 U.S.
Presidential campaign as evidence that the "Vietnam
syndrome" is still a problem in the United States. In
certain parts of the Vietnamese population, people continue
to see the United States as a wartime enemy. However, it is
the policy of the CPV and the GVN that, once relations with
a country are normalized, the Party and State will try to
improve the relationship step by step. The Ambassador
interjected that the real surprise is that bitterness
between the two populations is so rare, not that it exists.
And what bitterness there is does not affect the
relationship, the Ambassador added.

Addressing the War's Legacy
--------------


7. (SBU) "We should never forget the suffering experienced
by both sides of the war," the Ambassador continued. "And
we must maintain our efforts to manage the legacy of that
war, such as demining and unexploded ordinance clearance, an
area where the United States has done a great deal." The
United States is grateful to the GVN and the Vietnamese
people for the exceptional effort to assist with the fullest
possible accounting of personnel missing in action from the
wars in Indochina, he said. Vietnamese MIA numbers are also
very high and the United States wants to help Vietnam
account for its personnel as well. The other step the GVN
should take to resolve these issues is to make a greater
effort to reach out to the Vietnamese-American community,
the Ambassador advised. There is more reconciliation to be
done. Finally, the Ambassador recommended, both sides need
to seek a more constructive way to address the Agent ORANGE
issue; we should have greater dialogue and seek out creative
ways to work together.


8. (SBU) Nhien agreed with the Ambassador, and said that in
addition to official ties, the efforts of non-governmental
organizations and individuals can make a positive difference
in bilateral relations. As an example, he cited the recent
publication of the war diary of a female Vietnamese doctor
who was killed during the war. A U.S. soldier found the
diary and kept it for over thirty years, only recently
returning it to Vietnam on a visit. The diary has become
one of the best-selling books in Vietnam among young people,
and the care with which the U.S. veteran and his brother
handled the diary before returning it to Vietnam greatly
impressed the Vietnamese people. "The reaction of society,
especially youth, to the publication of this book has
demonstrated the extent to which the popular attitude
towards the United States has changed. It is clear that
people-to-people relations improve mutual sympathy and
understanding very much." (Note: Actually, the original of
the diary is still retained at Texas Tech University's
Vietnam Center. End Note.)

Strong Bilateral Relations in Both Countries' Interest
-------------- --------------


9. (SBU) Returning to his talking points, Nhien said GVN
policy is "to develop the bilateral relations according to
the framework between the two leaders expressed in the Joint
Statement of the PM's visit as two partners of cooperation,
stability and development." The Ambassador, he observed,
had discussed the issue of bilateral relations with
Politburo member and Standing Member of the Secretariat Phan
Dien (reftel). Phan Dien made clear that Vietnam attaches
"great importance to the role of the United States in the
world as well as the relationship between the two
countries." It was no coincidence that Phan Dien had
discussed Ho Chi Minh's 1945 ideology, or that he had
highlighted the fact that Vietnam's Declaration of
Independence begins with the Preamble to the U.S.
Declaration of Independence. Continuing the "Great
Americans" theme, Nhien catalogued his own visit to the
Jefferson Memorial in Washington, where he read the words
that found their way into Ho Chi Minh's 1945 speech, and to
the other end of Independence Avenue, where Nhien said he
"discovered what was stated by Abraham Lincoln: that
government is of the people, by the people and for the
people."


10. (SBU) Nhien said that it is "our belief that relations
between the United States and Vietnam will develop, because
relations are commensurate with the interests of the two
peoples, as well as the region and the world at large."
However, the development of positive relations requires
political will from both sides and the cooperation of the
populations on both sides. Nonetheless, Nhien said he feels
as though "there is a firm foundation for building a whole
house."

11. (SBU) DAS John responded that, in the United States,
there is a limited and decreasing number of people who do
not recognize the growing U.S.-Vietnam relationship.
Contrasting his experience with the bilateral relationship
in 1989 (when he first worked on Vietnam issues) and today,
the progress is "astonishing," DAS John said. Both sides
benefit from economic and cultural ties, and consultations
with policy makers in both countries convinced him that
"there is no area of policy difference where we do not have
a work plan to resolve our differences." On issues like WTO
accession, which are highly important to Vietnam, the real
problems are technical and require only time and effort for
negotiators to resolve.

DPRK, Continued
--------------


12. (SBU) The DPRK has a lot to learn from Vietnam, DAS John
said. Both countries fought difficult wars, but Vietnam is
now a regional actor and increasingly internationally
integrated. Pyongyang has done none of that, remains
isolated and is blind to the welfare of its citizens. DAS
John encouraged Vietnam to convince North Korea to follow
Vietnam's lead in taking a responsible position in the world
community.


13. (SBU) Nhien noted wryly that he traveled to Pyongyang in
1989, and that things had not changed in the ensuing 16
years. The same unfinished buildings are still unfinished,
and the rationing system is still in place. DAS John
advised that there is one significant difference: in 1989
there were goods to ration, but in 2005 there are only
ration tickets. Nhien said the North Koreans are
experimenting with economic reform, including creating
markets in the countryside and in cities, thus improving
production. Some export processing zones have also been
built near the Chinese border. As further evidence of North
Korean reform, Nhien cited an upcoming visit by DPRK
"delegations" to Hanoi to observe the Vietnamese economic
liberalization experience. However, he caveated: "We
recognize that the experience of one country, no matter how
good, cannot be completely applied to another country. We
cannot tell our North Korean friends that they should copy
our model, although we want to."

Comment
--------------


14. (SBU) Pham Tien Nhien is a fairly regular contact of the
Embassy by virtue of his position as head of the Party's
"Americas Desk." He is usually fairly reserved and sticks
close to well-scrubbed and familiar points that are, at
best, warily neutral towards the United States. This
meeting was a remarkable departure from the usual
boilerplate and reflected Nhien's perception of a personal
connection between him and DAS John.


15. (SBU) Comment continued: The riff on Ho Chi Minh's
being an ideological blood brother of the U.S. Founding
Fathers is consistent with the GVN line that has percolated
through the official media since last winter and does not by
itself reflect any new warming trend between the CPV and the
USG. Nhien's friendliness, however, is a positive
development, and the lengthy engagement (and commiseration)
on North Korea demonstrates the degree to which the concept
of the United States and Vietnam sharing common
international interests has taken root even in the infertile
soil of the Communist Party Headquarters. End Comment.


16. (U) DAS John cleared this cable.

MARINE