SENATOR HAGEL'S DECEMBER 4 MEETING WITH PRESIDENT

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 CAIRO 009055

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR NEA AND H
NSC STAFF FOR SINGH

E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/04/2015
TAGS: PREL PTER PGOV OREP ECON EG
SUBJECT: SENATOR HAGEL'S DECEMBER 4 MEETING WITH PRESIDENT
MUBARAK

Classified by Ambassador Francis J. Ricciardone, for reasons
1.4 (b) and (d).

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Summary
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1. (C) In a December 4 meeting, President Mubarak discussed
with visiting Senator Hagel Egypt's efforts to promote peace
and reconciliation in Iraq and outlined some of the obstacles
that stood in the way. Mubarak stressed his dim view of the
Shi'a and opined that its ties to Tehran and their
"duplicitous" nature posed major complications. On Syria,
Mubarak recounted Egypt's past efforts to influence Bashar,
and cautioned that public calls by the USG for regime change
would be counterproductive. On Israel-Palestine, Mubarak
expressed confidence in Sharon and discussed Egypt's
continuing efforts to temper Palestinian extremists. He
underlined that economic development and employment would be
the keys to the stabilization of Gaza. Mubarak provided a
scathing assessment of Iran and its "extremist" new
president, noting that he would not attend the December 7
Islamic summit in Mecca, deliberately to avoid any encounters
with President Ahmedinejad. The Ambassador pressed Mubarak
for greater Egyptian support for Europe's initiative with the
IAEA to make progress toward stopping Iranian WMD production.
On Egypt's domestic situation, Mubarak asserted that he was
unfazed by the Muslim Brotherhood's recent parliamentary
gains, but recounted their "bloody" history. On the economy,
Mubarak expressed confidence in his economic reform cabinet
and affirmed that job creation for youth, led by the private
sector, was a key GOE goal. End summary.


2. (U) President Mubarak received Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
and Ambassador Ricciardone, at the Ittihadiyah Palace in
Cairo on the morning of December 4. Lou Ann Linehan, Senator
Hagel's Chief of Staff, Rexon Ryu, Senator Hagel's Foreign
Policy Advisor, Mischa Thompson, Foreign Policy Advisor to
Senator Tom Carper, poloff (notetaker),and Soliman Awad,
Spokesman for President Mubarak, also attended.

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Iraq: "I Must Do Whatever I Can"
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3. (C) Mubarak acknowledged Senator Hagel's thanks for his
involvement in the late November conference on Iraqi
reconciliation at the Arab League, stating "I must do
whatever I can" to support progress in Iraq. The President
recalled that only his personal intervention in the recent
conference proceedings broke through an initial frosty
deadlock among the Iraqi participants. Mubarak added that he
had to provide personal assurances of his involvement in the
conference before Prime Minister Ja'fari finally agreed to
come from Baghdad.


4. (C) The President made clear his view that the role of
politicized Iraqi Shi'a Muslims severely complicated progress
toward a solution in Iraq. In Mubarak's view, the Shi'a were
extremely difficult to deal with and given to deception. The
President noted the presence of significant Shi'a minorities
in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and the Shi'a majority in
Bahrain, opining that all of these communities were subject
to influence from Tehran.


5. (C) On the outlook for a resolution to the continuing
violence in Iraq, Mubarak recalled earlier advising President
Bush that he should "forget all about democracy in Iraq," -
the complexity of the country's competing ethnic, religious,
and political interest groups precluded democracy, he
believed. In Mubarak's view, the only solution for Iraq
would be the emergence of a "strong leader...tough but fair."


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Syria
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6. (C) Senator Hagel asked Mubarak for his assessment of
whether Bashar was firmly in control of the SARG. Mubarak
replied that Bashar "is in a difficult position." He advised
the U.S. not to make too much of Syria's ties with Iran,
opining that the ties between the two states were in fact
"not strong" - the Iranians were essentially untrustworthy.
On the U.S. posture toward Syria in light of the Mehlis
investigation and UNSC engagement, Mubarak urged that the
U.S. avoid stating publicly that it sought "regime change" in
Syria. "This would work against you," and rally Arab public
opinion around the SARG, the President asserted. "I have
tried hard with Syria ever since Bashar took office," Mubarak
stated. "I advised Bashar that the world was changing and
that Syria had to change with it."
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Israel-Palestine Peace Process
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7. (C) Senator Hagel thanked the President for Egypt's
continuing strong support for progress in the
Israeli-Palestinian peace process. "Sharon is a strong
leader," Mubarak affirmed, "the strongest since Begin."
Mubarak also reminisced about his strong ties to Rabin and
lamented how close he, Rabin, and Hafiz al-Asad had been
toward reaching a peace between Israel and Syria. In the
end, Mubarak asserted, the sticking point was not full
withdrawal from the Golan, which Israel accepted, but the
establishment of full diplomatic ties, at which Asad balked.


8. (C) On the current situation, Mubarak said stability in
Gaza cannot be maintained unless Gazans can "enjoy the fruits
of peace." Economic development and jobs for Gaza's youth
must be realized, the President asserted, or else they will
revert to terror. "We don't want Sharon to get nervous,"
Mubarak continued, and Egypt was working hard on Hamas, to
get them to abandon terrorism, but "they are unreliable."
"Do you know who created Hamas? It was the Israelis!"
Mubarak stated.


9. (C) On the West Bank, the continued expansion of the
separation wall was having a negative effect on the mentality
of the people, Mubarak opined. Nonetheless, the President
continued, "we are working hard," and Egypt has good contacts
with both the Palestinian and Israeli leaderships.

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Iran
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10. (C) The President called attention to the
untrustworthiness and duplicity of the regime in Tehran. As
one example, the President recalled a meeting he had held in
Geneva approximately one year ago with President Khatemi.
Mubarak suggested that renaming the Tehran street named after
Sadat assassin Khalid Islambouli would be a confidence
builder. Instead, Ahmedinejad, then mayor of Teheran, had
erected a large new billboard commemorating Islambouli and
his "great deed."


11. (C) Senator Hagel told the President that he had just
heard from King Abdullah in Riyadh that he had received an
emissary from Tehran dispatched to explore upgrading ties
between Tehran and the KSA. Mubarak said he was intrigued to
hear this and would ask King Abdullah about it when he saw
him during a brief visit to Saudi Arabia he was planning for
December 8. Mubarak also noted that he was declining to
participate in the OIC summit in Saudi Arabia, on December 7,
because he did not wish to meet President Ahmedinejad. "The
Saudis are very cautious...they know very well that the
Iranians are dangerous," Mubarak stated.


12. (C) Mubarak described Iran's new president as an
"extremist," but advised the United States not to take too
much public action against him, as this would work in his
favor. "Don't think of launching an attack, this would unite
the people behind the President...This would be very much
against U.S. interests in the region," Mubarak cautioned.


13. (C) The Ambassador replied that we shared Mubarak's
suspicions about Iran, and in particular regarding its
apparent attempts to develop WMD. The US was working with
France, Germany, and even Russia at the IAEA, but evidently
Egypt's MFA has some reservations about the utility of
pressing them at the IAEA. Egypt could provide more help to
the current European initiative in the IAEA, the Ambassador
added, "we'd like to count on Egypt's support." In response,
Mubarak said that Egypt was limited as to what it could say
publicly. All WMD was bad, he continued, and "fanatics will
pick it up," if Egypt singles out Iran and ignores other WMD
in the region. "The back channel is the best way to make
progress on this issue. Do not use force."

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Egypt's Internal Situation
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14. (C) Senator Hagel asked the President about the current
legislative elections (which will conclude on December 7).
Mubarak noted that the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) had so far
secured 75 seats in the next People's Assembly (up from 16 in
the outgoing PA) and predicted that they "may reach 85 to 90
seats" when the elections conclude. While some in the
government were very worried by this development, Mubarak
continued, he saw no cause for panic, recalling that the MB
had held 95 seats in the People's Assembly as recently as

1987. "I don't worry about their seats but I worry about
their intentions," the President stated. The MB "may say
nice things" from time to time, but "we know them very well,"
Mubarak said darkly, "we have known them since 1928. "They
killed the Prime Minister (Ahmed Maher in 1944),they killed
a judge who tried them, they killed the Interior Minister,
they tried to kill Nasser, and Sadat, who loved them very
much and gave them freedom...they killed him too. They have
also tried to kill me several times."


15. (C) Mubarak recalled an earlier visit to Saudi Arabia in
which he and Omar Soliman had provided the Saudis specific
information about "dangerous" Egyptians affiliated with the
MB living and working in the Kingdom. Mubarak also
underlined links between Hamas and the MB, and implied that
Egyptian MB were providing assistance and support to their
Palestinian counterparts.

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Egypt's Economy
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16. (C) Senator Hagel asked the President for his views on
Egypt's economic outlook. "We have good ministers," Mubarak
said, naming in particular Finance Minister Boutros-Ghali and
Trade Minister Rachid, currently visiting Washington.
Mubarak asserted that creating jobs for Egypt's youth was his
top priority, and cited the creation of new industrial zones,
which benefited from state land grants and other privileges,
especially in Upper Egypt, a region which had earlier been
neglected, Mubarak noted.


17. (C) Asked by the Senator about privatization, Mubarak
said that the GOE was banking on the private sector as the
key to Egypt's economic development - and employment
creation. The President recalled that privatization had
originally been fiercely resisted, but allowed that it had
now been proven a success. Mubarak acknowledged that one
challenge Egypt continued to face was in transforming social
attitudes toward employment. He recalled how the GOE had
experienced difficulty in recruiting youth to take up good
jobs at new industrial cities in the desert, as so many were
unwilling to relocate outside of Cairo. To illustrate the
need for changing popular attitudes, he cited an exchange
with a young woman working at a private sector textile
factory in the Delta, who yearned for an "appointment" to a
government job, even though the salary was much lower.


18. (U) Senator Hagel did not clear this message before
departing Egypt.


RICCIARDONE