Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05BRUSSELS4516
2005-12-29 15:50:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Brussels
Cable title:
DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH
how-toThis record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BRUSSELS 004516
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/12/2015
TAGS: PREL SMIG KCRM CVIS EAIR PTER EUN USEU BRUSSELS
SUBJECT: DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH
EUROPEAN COMMISSION, DECEMBER 7, 2005
Classified By: PRMOFF MARC J. MEZNAR. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BRUSSELS 004516
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/12/2015
TAGS: PREL SMIG KCRM CVIS EAIR PTER EUN USEU BRUSSELS
SUBJECT: DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH
EUROPEAN COMMISSION, DECEMBER 7, 2005
Classified By: PRMOFF MARC J. MEZNAR. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).
1. (C) Summary. On December 7, DHS Deputy Secretary Michael
P. Jackson met with the European Commission's (EC) Director
General for Justice, Freedom and Security (JFS) Jonathan
Faull and discussed a broad range of border security related
issues. Topics included the pending decision on passenger
name records (PNR),the visa waiver program (VWP),the stolen
and lost passport data base administered by Interpol, DHS'
vision for the Secure Flight program, radicalization and
recruitment of terrorists, data retention, and the sharing of
law enforcement data. End Summary.
2. (U) Other USG participants included: Dennis Sequeira, DHS
Director for Europe, Office of International Affairs; Cynthia
Bergman, DHS Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Public
Affairs; Michael McKinley, USEU Charge d'Affaires; Mark
Richard, DOJ Liaison Officer, USEU; Marc Meznar, Migration
Affairs Officer, USEU. Other EU officials included: Carlo
Presenti, Commissioner Frattini,s Chef de Cabinet; Karolina
Kottova, Member of Cabinet; Lotte Knudsen, Head of Unit,
External Relations; Friso Roscam-Abbing, JFS Spokesman; and
Heike Buss, U.S. Desk Officer. Vice President Frattini was
originally scheduled to chair the session for the Commission
but had to attend a College meeting on the pending data
retention issue. He did however stop by to extend his welcome
to DepSec Jackson and to express regrets for his absence from
the session.
--------------
Overview
--------------
3. (C) DepSec Jackson stressed the importance of the U.S.-EU
relationship by pointing out that Brussels was his very first
overseas destination as the new Deputy Secretary for Homeland
Security. Faull noted the strength of the U.S.-EU dialogue
on a wide spectrum of justice, border and law enforcement
issues. Responding to an inquiry, Faull said that the 7/7
London attacks did not have the cataclysmic effect of the
9/11 attacks in the U.S. and that they produced "no durable
change" in the EU's response to terrorism. Acknowledging
that it was an awful thing to say, Faull stated that
"memories are very short." He explained that the mood change
in the EU's counter-terrorism efforts was more the result of
9/11 than of 7/7.
--------------
Data Retention
--------------
4. (C) Faull began the session by indicating that the EC was
nearing completion of a compromise data retention Directive
for internet and telecommunication data, which he said should
be endorsed by the Parliament and the Council of Ministers by
Christmas. The Directive will require retention of data for
a period of six to twenty-four months, depending on the type
of data being considered. (Comment: By allowing for Member
States to choose the period for retention, the procedures to
be followed by law enforcement for gaining access to the
data, as well as the procedures utilized for sharing the
information with third countries, some government agencies
and portions of industry who were interested in having a more
uniform standard emerge on such issues throughout the EU may
be disappointed, including US law enforcement agencies. End
Comment)
--------------
Radicalization and Recruitment
--------------
5. (C) Faull highlighted the issue of radicalization and
recruitment of terrorists and said that the EU is
increasingly concerned about the second and third generations
who are disenchanted. He noted that recent attacks in the
Netherlands and the UK, as well as the riots in France, had
been perpetrated by young people who appeared to be well
integrated in that they spoke the local language, understood
the host culture and were citizens. Faull said the EU needed
to look beyond the integration of immigrants and address
other possible root causes such as alienation, discrimination
and racism. He noted that the parents of many of the
perpetrators were genuinely shocked by the actions of their
children.
6. (C) Both sides agreed that radicalization in prisons was a
universal concern. DepSec Jackson noted that his subsequent
meeting in London of a U.S./UK working group would focus on
this issue and offered to establish a similar working group
with the EU. Faull agreed about the need to work together
and share findings in this area.
--------------
Information Sharing and PNR
--------------
7. (C) DepSec Jackson raised the issue of data sharing among
law enforcement agencies in the context of the recently
released proposed Framework Decision on data protection in
law enforcement and judicial cooperation. Faull indicated
that the data protection supervisors are extremely powerful
and that the EU public is very sensitive to data protection
issues. Faull indicated that at the present time there is no
"third pillar" data protection instrument and one is needed.
He stated that they would have to build ways to share
information with the U.S.
8. (C) The DepSec made it clear that a system of "adequacy
findings" as contemplated in the proposed legislation may
"kill" the sharing process. Faull responded by indicating
that the principle of adequacy is ingrained in the EU concept
of data protection and that this requirement ensures EU
citizens that their data will be fully protected.
9. (C) This issue led to a discussion of the PNR system and
the findings of the Advocate General. On the positive side
Faull indicated was a very strong finding that the agreement
does not violate civil liberties. However, if the court
follows the other findings concerning jurisdiction, then
Faull suggested we might face a short-term crisis until we
were able to devise a replacement regime. The DepSec urged
that we do some joint contingency planning in this regard.
10. (C) The EC made a plug for PNR data to be pushed by the
carriers instead of pulled by DHS. The DepSec said that he
was pleased with an ongoing pilot program with three European
carriers along these lines.
--------------
Secure Flight
--------------
11. (C) The DepSec briefed Faull on his thinking regarding
the Secure Flight Program. He said he hoped to refocus it
towards its original intent of identifying terrorists instead
of the wider spectrum of individuals of concern (e.g.,
"dead-beat dads", etc.). Although the system might
legitimately address multiple functions, the DepSec said that
Capps II had opened up a whole torrent of concerns that did
not have to be part of the discussion.
12. (C) Jackson explained that, in effect, DHS was seeking to
develop an automated watch list by first identifying all the
people that are not of concern and excluding them from
further scrutiny (i.e., taking hay off the haystack). Secure
Flight would intersect with voluntary registration programs
like "Trusted Traveler". The DepSec envisioned the private
sector administering the data in accordance with standards
set by DHS and coming up with scores for each traveler.
These scores would narrow the pool of travelers randomly
selected for more intense screenings.
13. (C) Faull expressed concern over the criterion DHS might
use in deriving individual scores. He warned of a
"minefield" and stressed the need to discuss this approach
carefully while moving forward.
--------------
Visa Waiver Program
--------------
14. (C) Faull raised the issue of visas and indicated that in
the long term both sides had to consider where the whole visa
process was heading. He questioned the sustainability of
exempting entire countries from visa requirements instead of
individuals.
15. (C) Nonetheless, Faull noted that in the short-term, he
needed to address the problem of visa reciprocity for the ten
Member States not in the U.S. visa waiver program. He said
that the EC would send a report to the Council on January 10
regarding progress in securing visa reciprocity. He said
that although the EC had been able to "keep a lid on" the
reciprocity, political pressure was quite strong and the
issue was coming to a head. Faull stated the report would
read badly for the U.S. which would stand in contrast to
changes made by other countries. He reassured the DepSec
that the EC's language would be as warm and friendly as
possible and that they would not seek to score political
points or embarrass.
16. (C) Jackson asked that the EU's inability to fully
integrate the new Member States into the Schengen system be
part of the report, although Faull remained non-committal.
Responding to a question from the Charge, Faull said that he
hoped that the discussion by Member States to follow on the
heels of the January 10 report would not involve
consideration of "retaliatory" measures.
17. (C) The DepSec indicated he did not anticipate much
further progress would be made prior to the January report
date but that he was personally committed to following the
issue and seeing it resolved. He noted that several views
within the USG needed to be reconciled regarding the future
of the VWP. Jackson mentioned President Bush,s announced
roadmaps and said that everyone is committed to them.
However, he also noted that the EU was not currently at the
point of full reciprocity on border issues with the new
Member States.
18. (C) Faull sought to link the new Member State's full
integration into Schengen with their being added to VWP,
noting similar requirements with regard to border controls,
document reliability, etc. He said evaluations would be
carried out in 2006 and that full integration into Schengen
should come in 2007.
19. (C) Meznar observed unequal treatment of citizens from
new Member States would continue until possibly 2011, at
which time Eastern Europeans would gain full labor rights in
the old Member States. He noted that the ability for Eastern
Europeans to work legally throughout the EU would make
clandestine labor in the U.S. less attractive. Remittances
could also spur economic development and possibly reduce visa
refusal rates. The DepSec noted that a quarter to a third of
all illegals in the U.S. are visa overstayers and said that
illegal immigration was a key issue in the public American
discourse.
--------------
Lost/stolen passports
--------------
20. (C) Both sides agreed on the need for addressing various
outstanding technical problems which inhibit the real time
use of the lost and stolen passport database administered by
Interpol at ports of entry. There was agreement that the
upcoming joint trip to Interpol should focus on the technical
issues relating to administering the database. However, the
DepSec stressed that DHS was very much interested in getting
additional biographical data into the database so as to be
able to do more analytical work, as well as information on
any ongoing national investigations into patterns of lost and
stolen passports. Faull noted the privacy interests
implicated in this approach but recognized at the same time
the value of pattern analysis. No date was fixed for the
joint mission to Lyon.
--------------
Secret Prisons
SIPDIS
--------------
21. (C) Faull closed the meeting with a pro-forma expression
of concern over the issue of alleged secret prisons. He
indicated that he was very interested in Secretary Rice's
response to the EU on the issue of "special renditions".
(DHS DepSec Jackson has cleared this message.)
MCKINLEY
.
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/12/2015
TAGS: PREL SMIG KCRM CVIS EAIR PTER EUN USEU BRUSSELS
SUBJECT: DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH
EUROPEAN COMMISSION, DECEMBER 7, 2005
Classified By: PRMOFF MARC J. MEZNAR. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).
1. (C) Summary. On December 7, DHS Deputy Secretary Michael
P. Jackson met with the European Commission's (EC) Director
General for Justice, Freedom and Security (JFS) Jonathan
Faull and discussed a broad range of border security related
issues. Topics included the pending decision on passenger
name records (PNR),the visa waiver program (VWP),the stolen
and lost passport data base administered by Interpol, DHS'
vision for the Secure Flight program, radicalization and
recruitment of terrorists, data retention, and the sharing of
law enforcement data. End Summary.
2. (U) Other USG participants included: Dennis Sequeira, DHS
Director for Europe, Office of International Affairs; Cynthia
Bergman, DHS Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Public
Affairs; Michael McKinley, USEU Charge d'Affaires; Mark
Richard, DOJ Liaison Officer, USEU; Marc Meznar, Migration
Affairs Officer, USEU. Other EU officials included: Carlo
Presenti, Commissioner Frattini,s Chef de Cabinet; Karolina
Kottova, Member of Cabinet; Lotte Knudsen, Head of Unit,
External Relations; Friso Roscam-Abbing, JFS Spokesman; and
Heike Buss, U.S. Desk Officer. Vice President Frattini was
originally scheduled to chair the session for the Commission
but had to attend a College meeting on the pending data
retention issue. He did however stop by to extend his welcome
to DepSec Jackson and to express regrets for his absence from
the session.
--------------
Overview
--------------
3. (C) DepSec Jackson stressed the importance of the U.S.-EU
relationship by pointing out that Brussels was his very first
overseas destination as the new Deputy Secretary for Homeland
Security. Faull noted the strength of the U.S.-EU dialogue
on a wide spectrum of justice, border and law enforcement
issues. Responding to an inquiry, Faull said that the 7/7
London attacks did not have the cataclysmic effect of the
9/11 attacks in the U.S. and that they produced "no durable
change" in the EU's response to terrorism. Acknowledging
that it was an awful thing to say, Faull stated that
"memories are very short." He explained that the mood change
in the EU's counter-terrorism efforts was more the result of
9/11 than of 7/7.
--------------
Data Retention
--------------
4. (C) Faull began the session by indicating that the EC was
nearing completion of a compromise data retention Directive
for internet and telecommunication data, which he said should
be endorsed by the Parliament and the Council of Ministers by
Christmas. The Directive will require retention of data for
a period of six to twenty-four months, depending on the type
of data being considered. (Comment: By allowing for Member
States to choose the period for retention, the procedures to
be followed by law enforcement for gaining access to the
data, as well as the procedures utilized for sharing the
information with third countries, some government agencies
and portions of industry who were interested in having a more
uniform standard emerge on such issues throughout the EU may
be disappointed, including US law enforcement agencies. End
Comment)
--------------
Radicalization and Recruitment
--------------
5. (C) Faull highlighted the issue of radicalization and
recruitment of terrorists and said that the EU is
increasingly concerned about the second and third generations
who are disenchanted. He noted that recent attacks in the
Netherlands and the UK, as well as the riots in France, had
been perpetrated by young people who appeared to be well
integrated in that they spoke the local language, understood
the host culture and were citizens. Faull said the EU needed
to look beyond the integration of immigrants and address
other possible root causes such as alienation, discrimination
and racism. He noted that the parents of many of the
perpetrators were genuinely shocked by the actions of their
children.
6. (C) Both sides agreed that radicalization in prisons was a
universal concern. DepSec Jackson noted that his subsequent
meeting in London of a U.S./UK working group would focus on
this issue and offered to establish a similar working group
with the EU. Faull agreed about the need to work together
and share findings in this area.
--------------
Information Sharing and PNR
--------------
7. (C) DepSec Jackson raised the issue of data sharing among
law enforcement agencies in the context of the recently
released proposed Framework Decision on data protection in
law enforcement and judicial cooperation. Faull indicated
that the data protection supervisors are extremely powerful
and that the EU public is very sensitive to data protection
issues. Faull indicated that at the present time there is no
"third pillar" data protection instrument and one is needed.
He stated that they would have to build ways to share
information with the U.S.
8. (C) The DepSec made it clear that a system of "adequacy
findings" as contemplated in the proposed legislation may
"kill" the sharing process. Faull responded by indicating
that the principle of adequacy is ingrained in the EU concept
of data protection and that this requirement ensures EU
citizens that their data will be fully protected.
9. (C) This issue led to a discussion of the PNR system and
the findings of the Advocate General. On the positive side
Faull indicated was a very strong finding that the agreement
does not violate civil liberties. However, if the court
follows the other findings concerning jurisdiction, then
Faull suggested we might face a short-term crisis until we
were able to devise a replacement regime. The DepSec urged
that we do some joint contingency planning in this regard.
10. (C) The EC made a plug for PNR data to be pushed by the
carriers instead of pulled by DHS. The DepSec said that he
was pleased with an ongoing pilot program with three European
carriers along these lines.
--------------
Secure Flight
--------------
11. (C) The DepSec briefed Faull on his thinking regarding
the Secure Flight Program. He said he hoped to refocus it
towards its original intent of identifying terrorists instead
of the wider spectrum of individuals of concern (e.g.,
"dead-beat dads", etc.). Although the system might
legitimately address multiple functions, the DepSec said that
Capps II had opened up a whole torrent of concerns that did
not have to be part of the discussion.
12. (C) Jackson explained that, in effect, DHS was seeking to
develop an automated watch list by first identifying all the
people that are not of concern and excluding them from
further scrutiny (i.e., taking hay off the haystack). Secure
Flight would intersect with voluntary registration programs
like "Trusted Traveler". The DepSec envisioned the private
sector administering the data in accordance with standards
set by DHS and coming up with scores for each traveler.
These scores would narrow the pool of travelers randomly
selected for more intense screenings.
13. (C) Faull expressed concern over the criterion DHS might
use in deriving individual scores. He warned of a
"minefield" and stressed the need to discuss this approach
carefully while moving forward.
--------------
Visa Waiver Program
--------------
14. (C) Faull raised the issue of visas and indicated that in
the long term both sides had to consider where the whole visa
process was heading. He questioned the sustainability of
exempting entire countries from visa requirements instead of
individuals.
15. (C) Nonetheless, Faull noted that in the short-term, he
needed to address the problem of visa reciprocity for the ten
Member States not in the U.S. visa waiver program. He said
that the EC would send a report to the Council on January 10
regarding progress in securing visa reciprocity. He said
that although the EC had been able to "keep a lid on" the
reciprocity, political pressure was quite strong and the
issue was coming to a head. Faull stated the report would
read badly for the U.S. which would stand in contrast to
changes made by other countries. He reassured the DepSec
that the EC's language would be as warm and friendly as
possible and that they would not seek to score political
points or embarrass.
16. (C) Jackson asked that the EU's inability to fully
integrate the new Member States into the Schengen system be
part of the report, although Faull remained non-committal.
Responding to a question from the Charge, Faull said that he
hoped that the discussion by Member States to follow on the
heels of the January 10 report would not involve
consideration of "retaliatory" measures.
17. (C) The DepSec indicated he did not anticipate much
further progress would be made prior to the January report
date but that he was personally committed to following the
issue and seeing it resolved. He noted that several views
within the USG needed to be reconciled regarding the future
of the VWP. Jackson mentioned President Bush,s announced
roadmaps and said that everyone is committed to them.
However, he also noted that the EU was not currently at the
point of full reciprocity on border issues with the new
Member States.
18. (C) Faull sought to link the new Member State's full
integration into Schengen with their being added to VWP,
noting similar requirements with regard to border controls,
document reliability, etc. He said evaluations would be
carried out in 2006 and that full integration into Schengen
should come in 2007.
19. (C) Meznar observed unequal treatment of citizens from
new Member States would continue until possibly 2011, at
which time Eastern Europeans would gain full labor rights in
the old Member States. He noted that the ability for Eastern
Europeans to work legally throughout the EU would make
clandestine labor in the U.S. less attractive. Remittances
could also spur economic development and possibly reduce visa
refusal rates. The DepSec noted that a quarter to a third of
all illegals in the U.S. are visa overstayers and said that
illegal immigration was a key issue in the public American
discourse.
--------------
Lost/stolen passports
--------------
20. (C) Both sides agreed on the need for addressing various
outstanding technical problems which inhibit the real time
use of the lost and stolen passport database administered by
Interpol at ports of entry. There was agreement that the
upcoming joint trip to Interpol should focus on the technical
issues relating to administering the database. However, the
DepSec stressed that DHS was very much interested in getting
additional biographical data into the database so as to be
able to do more analytical work, as well as information on
any ongoing national investigations into patterns of lost and
stolen passports. Faull noted the privacy interests
implicated in this approach but recognized at the same time
the value of pattern analysis. No date was fixed for the
joint mission to Lyon.
--------------
Secret Prisons
SIPDIS
--------------
21. (C) Faull closed the meeting with a pro-forma expression
of concern over the issue of alleged secret prisons. He
indicated that he was very interested in Secretary Rice's
response to the EU on the issue of "special renditions".
(DHS DepSec Jackson has cleared this message.)
MCKINLEY
.