BRAZIL: FORMER U.S. AMBASSADORS DISCUSS UN

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 BRASILIA 001044

SIPDIS

SENSITIVE

E.O. 12958: N/A

TAGS: PARM PGOV PREL PTER BR UNSC
SUBJECT: BRAZIL: FORMER U.S. AMBASSADORS DISCUSS UN

REFORM, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION WITH GOB.


1. (SBU) Summary. From March 30 to April 1, former
Ambassador Thomas Pickering and Ambassador Alec Watson met
with former Brazilian Ambassador to the U.S. Rubens
Barbosa; former Foreign Minister Luiz Lampreia; Marcelo
Vasconcelos and Paulo Alvarenga from the US and Canada
Division at the Ministry of External Relations (MRE); and
Achilles Zaluar from the UN Affairs Division at the MRE to
discuss UN reform and nuclear proliferation. Ambassador
Pickering is currently the Senior Vice President for
International Relations at Boeing and is a member of the
Boeing Executive Council. Ambassador Watson is the
Managing Director for Hills and Company which provides
consulting services to Boeing. Ambassador Watson provided
the following readout to EmbOffs. End Summary.

Former Brazilian Ambassador to U.S. Rubens Barbosa
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2. (SBU) On March 30, Pickering met with former Brazilian
Ambassador to the U.S. Rubens Barbosa to discuss UN reform
and nuclear proliferation issues. Barbosa told Pickering
that the GOB's primary interest was in securing a UNSC
permanent seat with veto power. The GOB, Barbosa said,
would not support rotational seats for Latin America, but
added that the GOB would accept a permanent seat without
veto power if offered. Barbosa told Pickering that the GOB
is working closely with Japan, Germany, and India.
Barbosa further reported that the GOB was pleased that
Senator Norm Coleman (R-MN) supported the GOB?s UNSC
aspirations during his recent trip to Brazil since this is
the first time a high-level US government figure has
supported publicly the GOB's aspirations.


3. (SBU) Pickering and Barbosa discussed concern about
Brazil?s nuclear aspirations and uranium enrichment program
that stemmed from incorrect remarks made by former Minister
of Science and Technology Roberto Amaral in early 2003.
Amaral stated publicly that the GOB was seeking the full
nuclear cycle, including the capacity to develop nuclear
weapons. Barbosa confirmed that Amaral's remarks were
incorrect and the GOB had no intention of developing or
acquiring nuclear weapons due to a provision in the 1988
Constitution. Moreover, Brazil and Argentina established a
bilateral agency that inspects and investigates all alleged
infractions, Barbosa said. When asked about international
nuclear program inspections, Barbosa reported that the GOB
is currently negotiating an agreement with the IAEA
(Additional Protocol) on a uranium enrichment inspection
program. The GOB claimed that it wanted to protect more
efficient centrifuge technology that it developed and
wanted to avoid sharing this technology with others.
Barbosa said he believed that the GOB's unique technology
claims were probably false and added that enriched uranium
would be used for peaceful purposes. He also noted that
the Brazilian navy is working on developing a nuclear
powered submarine.

Former Foreign Minister Ambassador Luiz Lampreia
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4. (SBU) On March 31, Pickering raised the same issues with
former Foreign Minister Luiz Lampreia. Lampreia told
Pickering that Foreign Minister Celso Amorim was "obsessed"
with securing a permanent UNSC seat and has convinced
President Lula that this should be a top priority for
Brazilian foreign policy. Lampreia found this approach
irrational given the GOB's domestic challenges, especially
since the GOB had neither the interest nor the capacity to
influence global events. Lampreia further added that while
becoming a UNSC permanent member would enhance national
prestige, it would not match Brazil's current political and
economic interests.

Ministry of External Relations
--------------

5. (SBU) On April 1, Pickering met with Marcelo
Vasconcelos, Director of the Department of North America
and the Caribbean Affairs; Paulo Alvarenga, Chief of the
United States and Canada Division; and First Secretary
Achilles Zaluar, Deputy Head of the Division for United
Nations Affairs. Pickering discussed many of the same
issues and asked more specific questions about the GOB's
position. Pickering asked about Brazil's views on the
French proposal to make NPT withdrawal more difficult or
apply residual obligations to those who withdraw. Zaluar
noted that the GOB had no position on the proposal and
would refrain from adopting one because it will chair the
upcoming NPT Review Conference.


6. (SBU) Pickering inquired about Brazil's view on IAEA
Director General El Baradei's proposal for a moratorium on
new uranium enrichment and reprocessing plants. Zaluar
quickly replied that it was fine, "as long as it does not
affect us." He observed that the GOB was expanding its
enrichment facility in Resende, Rio de Janeiro state. When
Pickering pushed harder on how many centrifuge cascades
were operating at Resende and whether they were enriching
uranium, Zaluar said he was not sure, but he believed that
only one cascade was functioning. Concerning the NPT
Additional Protocol, Zaluar said twice that "it was under
very active consideration in the Brazilian government."
When pressed further, he said that although there were some
who support and oppose the protocol the question will be
resolved by the President.


7. (SBU) The MRE was reluctant to comment on the terrorism
definition included in the Secretary General's report
because it was not an issue they monitored. Nevertheless,
Mr. Zaluar said that he was unaware of any GOB problems
with the definition.


8. (SBU) When Pickering asked Zaluar about the GOB's
aspirations for a UN permanent seat, Zaluar said that
Foreign Minister Amorim said repeatedly that there were
several issues: 1) the current P-5 will not give up their
veto; 2) Brazil does not want a new category of members
other than the current permanent and non-permanent members;
3) many countries do not want more members with vetoes.
Finally, Zaluar added, the veto will not be an obstacle,
but the formula reconciling these three points will take
place only at the end of the negotiating process. The MRE
believed that there had been positive signals in support of
UN reform, most notably Secretary Rice's public support for
Japan and former Secretary Powell?s "non-opposition" stance
to UN reform during his trip to Brazil in October 2004.
Zaluar believed that this silence was positive, but
Pickering cautioned against interpreting USG silence before
the USG position was made clear.


10. (SBU) When Pickering asked about the GOB position on
the indicative vote, the P-5 agreement, and not using the
veto in certain circumstances, Zaluar seemed to indicate
that Brazil viewed positively the idea of allowing P-5
members to vote "no" without using their veto. He said
Brazil recognized that Russia and other P-5 members would
never accept any change in their P-5 status and attributes,
so "this was not a stumbling block," Zaluar added.


11. (SBU) Pickering asked Zaluar why the UNSC continued to
ignore DPRK and Iran. Mr. Zaluar said that some UNSC
members would not oppose sanctions on these countries but
warned that a consensus was needed since the credibility of
the Council was at stake. Zaluar believed that the
Europeans remained hopeful on Iran and in the case of the
DPRK, UNSC members wanted to allow the six party talks to
operate. The UNSC was already engaged in non-proliferation
issues (the application of the NPT and IEAE statutes),
Zalour added.

Vice President and Minister of Defense Jose Alencar
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12. (SBU) On April 1, Pickering asked Vice President
Alencar about the GOB stance on nuclear proliferation and
specifically mentioned the GOB's negotiations with the
IAEA. The Vice President said that Brazil "is always in
favor of all international measures to end the development
of nuclear weapons. Any technological advance in Brazil is
directed toward peace." Alencar added, however, that "there
are applications of technology to the production of energy
to which Brazil must be attentive." "If there is a country
that is an example on this issue, it is Brazil," he
averred. When asked about the GOB stance on the proposal
to establish a five-year moratorium on new enrichment and
replenishment efforts, Alencar observed that he could not
reply without deeper understanding of the issue. Then he
added, "What I can say philosophically is there is no one
in a position of responsibility who thinks in any other
terms than peace. We do not want war, but if any one
occupies one kilometer of our territory we would go to
war."

DANILOVICH