Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05BANGKOK2537
2005-04-08 07:45:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Bangkok
Cable title:  

AMBASSADORS HILL AND BOYCE MEET INDONESIAN

Tags:  PGOV PHUM PREL TH 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 BANGKOK 002537 

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/08/2015
TAGS: PGOV PHUM PREL TH
SUBJECT: AMBASSADORS HILL AND BOYCE MEET INDONESIAN
NAHDLATUL ULAMA CHAIRMAN


Classified By: CHARGE ALEX ARVIZU. REASON: 1.4 (D)

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 BANGKOK 002537

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/08/2015
TAGS: PGOV PHUM PREL TH
SUBJECT: AMBASSADORS HILL AND BOYCE MEET INDONESIAN
NAHDLATUL ULAMA CHAIRMAN


Classified By: CHARGE ALEX ARVIZU. REASON: 1.4 (D)


1. (C) Summary: During a March 29 meeting in Bangkok,
Indonesian Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) Chairman Achmad Hasyim Muzadi
told Ambassadors Hill and Boyce that the Royal Thai
Government (RTG) had invited him to visit the troubled
Muslim-majority southern border provinces of Thailand, speak
with local officials and civilians, and provide
recommendations on how to address the region's problems.
Muzadi also described for Ambassador Hill the moderate nature
of the NU organization and its basic principles. Muzadi
expressed concern that stereotyping reporting in the Thai
media is giving Buddhists in Thailand the impression that all
Muslims are Al Qaida. End Summary.


2. (U) Ambassadors Hill and Boyce met with Indonesian
Nahdlatul Ulama Chairman Achmad Hasyim Muzadi in a downtown
Bangkok hotel on March 29. Muzadi was in Thailand at the
RTG's invitation to review and discuss the situation in the
south. The schedule for his visit included a trip to
Thailand's deep southern border provinces, which had not yet
taken place when he met the two Ambassadors. During his stay
to Thailand, Muzadi had meetings with the King, Prime
Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Foreign Minister Kanthati
Suphamongkhon, and a number of other Thai officials and
political figures.


3. (C) Noting that he had not previously visited Thailand's
south, Muzadi asked Ambassador Boyce for his assessment of
the situation there. Ambassador Boyce said that the RTG has
unfortunately displayed a lack of sensitivity to southern
Thai Muslims in its policies and pronouncements. The
Ambassador noted that the southern Muslim majority provinces
have not been smoothly integrated into Thailand in the 100
odd years that they have been under Bangkok's rule. Tensions
were particularly acute last year, beginning with the January
4 attack on an Army armory and especially in the wake of the
Tak Bai and Krue Se incidents. In the recent general
parliamentary elections, the TRT was soundly repudiated by
the voters in the southern provinces, probably a reflection
of reaction against its hard-line security approach to events
in the south. Now Thaksin has adopted a more conciliatory

tone and just appointed a 48 member commission, headed by
former Prime Minister Anand, to look into the situation and
to advise him. He added that the group appeared to be
credibly diverse and Anand was a prestigious, serious
individual sincere in seeking solutions.


4. (C) Muzadi cited the ongoing conflict between Christians
and Muslims in Maluku in Indonesia and asked if the conflict
in Thailand's south was sectarian. Ambassador Boyce
responded that the conflict is not primarily between the
Buddhists and Muslims living in the region. Rather it is to
a large degree fanned by resentment among Thai Muslims over
callous treatment by authorities, especially the police --
the great majority of whom are Buddhist and from elsewhere in
Thailand. Ambassador Boyce said that the conflict in the
south was probably exacerbated when the Prime Minister
dismantled the joint civilian, military, police Task Force
43, which had served as both a conduit for complaints by the
local population and a source of good intelligence. Thaksin,
as a former policeman, was probably susceptible to police
assertions that they could handle the situation alone and
that the task force was unnecessary.


5. (C) Muzadi said that he was afraid that Buddhists in
Thailand will believe that all Muslims are Al Qaida. The
Thai media appears to actively promote a negative image of
Muslims, he added. Muzadi said that stories in the press
will invariably note if the accused is a "Muslim" rather than
describing him as Thai.


6. (C) Muzadi noted that he would visit the south the next
day, to speak with the local residents and to try to
ascertain what was happening. He asked about the state of
the Muslim religious schools. Ambassador Boyce said that the
RTG also does not understand how the Pondok (Islamic schools)
work. The schools in some cases are weak and need
strengthened curriculums. Consequently, some students have
gone abroad, some to the Middle East, some have joined
extremist groups. Ambassador Boyce added that there should
be discussion of getting more investment and upgrading the
education in the religious schools to provide math, science
and language training. Muzadi agreed, pointing out that only
a handful of religious schools in Indonesia were identified
with troublemakers.


7. (C) In response to Muzadi's question about links between
southern Thai Muslims and Malaysia, Ambassador Boyce
responded that although there are family connections, there
is no evidence of any involvement by the Malaysian central
government, Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) or Al Qaida. We are
careful about our judgments, he added. As a friend of
Thailand, the U.S. wants to see more sensitivity applied to
the situation of southern Thai Muslims or the conflict could
unnecessarily worsen and prove a magnet for bad international
elements. Referring to the Krue se and Tak Bai incidents,
Ambassador Boyce said that no Thai officials have been
punished yet. There needs to be accountability for the
actions of those responsible for firing into the mosque in
the first instance and the deaths in custody of the 78
demonstrators at Tak Bai.


8. (C) Ambassador Boyce added that a recent mistake made by
the Prime Minister was to propose withholding government
economic and development assistance to so-called "red zones,"
which RTG officials considered uncooperative areas. This
proposal was rightly slammed as potentially counterproductive
as aid should go to areas that the RTG wants swayed back to
its side. In response to Muzadi's question on terrorism, the
Ambassador replied that there is domestic terrorism being
carried out by separatists -- car bombs, killings of monks,
school burnings. Muzadi asked what the motivation was for
the separatist movement. The Ambassador responded that there
are historic roots but the movement is kept alive because
many southern Thai Muslims currently feel ignored and
disrespected and threatened by the government and mainstream
Buddhist Thai society. Muzadi agreed that the government to
date appears to have failed, and commented that the Prime
Minister needed to establish a better dialogue with the Thai
Muslim community. Muzadi, who had met with King Bhumipol
Adulyadej the day before, said that his Majesty was
interested in hearing his views on the situation. Muzadi
repeated that he was eager to visit the troubled region to
form first-hand opinions. So far everything he knew about
the area and its problems was from the media.


9. (SBU) In response to Ambassador Hill's question
regarding the philosophy of the Nahdlatul Ulama, Muzadi
stated that the organization adheres to the principles of
Pancasila as set forth in Indonesia's constitution. In
brief, the Pancasila principles are: belief in one supreme
God; humanitarianism; nationalism; consultative democracy and
social justice. The NU is the largest Muslim organization in
Indonesia, with 30-40 million members, but it does not
promote formation of an Islamic state, Muzadi said, adding
that "religion in politics causes conflict." Muzadi
continued that the NU supports moderation in Islamic thought,
sees good in all faiths, and promotes religious dialogue.
Muzadi contrasted the NU with the rival Muhammadiyah, a
largely urban and middle class organization which, he said,
which promotes a more Middle Eastern (conservative) cultural
orientation.



ARVIZU