CODEL SHAYS CALLS ON IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 BAGHDAD 004174

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/10/2015
TAGS: PGOV PREL PTER
SUBJECT: CODEL SHAYS CALLS ON IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR

Classified By: Political-Military Affairs Counselor David C. Litt for r
easons 1.4 (a),(b),(d)


1. (SBU) SUMMARY: A Congressional delegation led by Rep.
Christopher Shays (R, CT) called on the Iraqi Minister of
Interior Bayan Jabr on October 9, 2005. Jabr told the group
that Iraqis are grateful for all the U.S. has done to free
them from the tyranny of Saddam, assured them that steps are
being taken to control and eliminate human rights abuses,
perceived or real, by Ministry of Interior (MOI) security
forces, and provided a briefing on the steps being taken to
assure the security of voters for the coming referendum. He
predicted that the referendum will pass. END SUMMARY.


2. (SBU) Congressman Shays was accompanied to this meeting by
Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D, ND),Rep. Michael Campuano (D, MA),and
Rep. Ron Kind (D, WI) and several staff members and
notetakers. IRMO/MOI Senior Advisor James Yellin and
DepPolMilCouns were also present. Rep. Shays began the
meeting by explaining that his delegation reflected a
diversity of views on the U.S. presence in Iraq and said it
was his desire to have frank discussions with all the Iraqi
officials they would meet. He told Jabr that the questions
foremost on his mind are how soon can U.S. troops leave, what
is the level of readiness and quality of MOI security forces,
and what is being done about reported human rights abuses
committed by MOI forces against Sunnis.


3. (SBU) JUSTIFICATION FOR U.S. PRESENCE IN IRAQ: Jabr
began by replying that the U.S. had done the right thing by
coming to the aid of the Iraqi people. Even if weapons of
mass destruction had not been found, this threat was embodied
in the persona of Saddam Hussain, who clearly had the
intention and means to produce such weapons. Prior to the
U.S. invasion, the Iraqi people had been subject to
oppression and abuse each and every day. The people of Iraq
and the wider region want freedom and democracy and a great
country like the United States has a role to play in making
this a reality. What has taken place in the past year in
terms of elections and the drafting of a constitution are
remarkable achievements that should not be overlooked. In
addition, the progress made by the Iraqi Security Forces
(ISF) is also significant. Jabr said that he is very proud of
how the MOI forces have progressed with the assistance and
training provided by the U.S. and predicted that by next year
ISF would be assuming responsibility on their own for
security in wide areas of Iraq.


4. (SBU) HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES: With regard to reported human
rights abuses by MOI forces, Jabr admitted that in Iraq there
has long been a culture of police violence, torture, and
oppression against the people. He assured the congressmen
that the government is taking steps to change this culture
but conceded that, despite daily progress, there is still a
long way to go. Jabr said that in Iraq it takes time for
such things to take root, and reminded the congressmen that
for fifty years Iraq had no democracy or human rights. Jabr
also reported that the MOI is bolstering the rule of law by
placing Investigative Judges with each Special Police
battalion, strengthening the role of the Inspectors General,
and supporting the work of the Commission on Public
Integrity. These steps, Jabr maintained, will help bring the
problems of corruption and human rights abuses under control.


5. (SBU) TARGETING OF SUNNIS BY MOI FORCES: Rep. Shays
asked specifically about allegations that MOI units are
killing Sunnis. Jabr replied that sometimes after Shias are
killed by Sunnis, revenge operations take place. These are
as hard to stop as terrorist attacks. He said that he, the
Minister of Defense, the Prime Minister, and GEN Casey are
working together to establish an independent commission that
will investigate such claims to determine the truth. This
will be an improvement over the existing investigatory
process, which relies on units that are within and therefore
under the control of the MOI. He also maintained that many
reports of violence or killings committed by police are
actually carried out by terrorists disguised as police.
Anyone, he said, can buy a police uniform and paint a pickup
truck to resemble a police vehicle. He produced photos of
dead and captured terrorists who he claimed had done just
that. He also produced a handful of passports from France,
Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Saudi Arabia along with airline
tickets from Syria to prove his point that Iraq is fighting a
war against international terrorists who will use any tactics
to turn the population against the government, and that these
foreign fighters are passing through Syria.


6. (C//REL GBR) DE-BAATHIFICATION: Rep. Pomeroy asked what
the MOI is doing to address the concerns of the Sunni
community that it is being widely targeted by the MOI and the
current government. On the subject of de-Baathification,
Jabr stated that people who assume it is targeting all Sunnis
are misinformed. The reality, according to Jabr, is that
many Shias were also Baathists. The program only targets
those who were high ranking Baathists in Saddam's regime, and
it doesn't mean that people can't get jobs, only that they
can't be given top jobs in the government. (COMMENT: Jabr's
portrait of de-Baathification seems a bit overly generous and
does not conform to what we've heard from a wide range of
contacts. END COMMENT.) With regard to diversity in the
MOI, Jabr told the congressmen that the Chief of Police in
Baghdad is a Sunni, the commander of all Special Police units
is a Sunni, the head of the Major Crimes Unit is a Sunni, the
General in charge of election security is a Sunni, the head
of the Finance unit is Sunni. Reports that the MOI is a
"Shia" organization are just "rumors." (COMMENT: What Jabr
says is true, but the fact remains that a large percentage of
the forces on the street are Shia, and despite who their
commanding officers may be, they are widely perceived to be
"Shia units." END COMMENT.)


7. (SBU) QUALITY OF MOI FORCES: Rep. Kind asked about the
quality and morale of the MOI forces. Jabr replied that they
are mostly young men who must pass literacy and physical
standards to join, and that if he announced openings he'd
have half a million applicants. The young people who are
coming forward are doing so because they want to serve Iraq
and they are proud to do so. Rep. Kind pointed out that this
was his third visit to Iraq, and each time he came it seemed
as if the security was getting tighter and tighter. He
wondered whether this indicated a worsening of the situation.
He also wanted to know whether Jabr believes Iraqis are
turning against the insurgency. Jabr replied that the fact
security is tighter is not an indication that things are
worse but rather that his forces are more visible. He
reiterated that foreign fighters continue to come to Iraq and
want to see the U.S. defeated. Local people are beginning to
turn against the terrorists. He does not believe there is a
"civil war" taking place in Iraq and said that if this were
to happen, it would split families and tribes. Rep. Campuano
asked that if things are getting better, why can't U.S.
forces depart. Jabr said that the U.S. cannot withdrawal
until the ISF are fully capable, and that point has not yet
been reached. The U.S. must stay to continue training the
ISF, to help Iraq realize its dreams for democracy, and to
help defeat the terrorists. "We need to stay the course",
Jabr concluded.


8. (SBU) REFERENDUM SECURITY: The congressmen received a
short briefing on the security measures that will be in place
to assure the safety and success of the upcoming referendum.
Rep. Shays asked for a prediction on the outcome of the
referendum and Jabr replied that he believes it will pass.
If it does not, the Iraqis would consider it to be a first
try and would continue to try again until an agreement is
reached. He expressed gratitude to Ambassador Khalilzad and
the United States for all that has been done to try to bridge
the gaps between the different Iraqi communities.


Khalilzad