Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05ANKARA6805
2005-11-18 12:40:00
SECRET
Embassy Ankara
Cable title:  

ASD FLORY AND MOD GONUL DISCUSS US-TU DEENSE

Tags:  PREL MARR MASS TU IZ 
pdf how-to read a cable
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FM AMEMBASSY ANKARA
TO RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC PRIORITY
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 1293
INFO RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE
RUEHIT/AMCONSUL ISTANBUL 9061
RHMFISS/39ABG INCIRLIK AB TU
RHMFISS/425ABS IZMIR TU//CC//
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHDC
RHMFISS/HQ USCENTCOM MACDILL AFB FL
RHMFISS/HQ USEUCOM VAIHINGEN GE
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHDC//J-3/J-5//
RUEUITH/DC ANKARA TU
S E C R E T ANKARA 006805 

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/21/2015
TAGS: PREL MARR MASS TU IZ
SUBJECT: ASD FLORY AND MOD GONUL DISCUSS US-TU DEENSE
RELATIONS


Classified By: Charge Nancy McEldowney for reasons 1.4 b and d.

S E C R E T ANKARA 006805

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/21/2015
TAGS: PREL MARR MASS TU IZ
SUBJECT: ASD FLORY AND MOD GONUL DISCUSS US-TU DEENSE
RELATIONS


Classified By: Charge Nancy McEldowney for reasons 1.4 b and d.


1. (C) Summary: Visiting ASD Flory thanked Defense Minister
Gonul for his record of public support for the US-Turkey
relationship when they met on November 10. In response to
Gonul's complaint about US inaction against the PKK in
northern Iraq, the ASD pointed out concrete steps the USG is
taking against the terrorist group. He urged Turkey to play
an even more positive role in Iraq, and asked Ankara to
reassure Moscow that the USG's intentions in Central Asia are
positive. Gonul expressed support for eventual Ukrainian
membership in NATO. He and SSM Undersecretary Bayar made a
pitch for greater Turkish work-share in the Joint Strike
Fighter program. DSCA Director LtGen Kohler suggested that
Turkey reengage the US on excess F-16s in six to eight
months. End summary.

--------------
Defending the Bilateral Relationship
--------------


2. (C) Assistant Secretary of Defense for International
Security Policy Peter Flory told Minister of National Defense
Vecdi Gonul during their November 10 meeting that the High
Level Defense Group (HLDG) meeting that had concluded earlier
in the day (septel) was "extremely successful," having
addressed both strategic issues and practical matters. Mr.
Flory noted that this had been his first HLDG meeting as well
as his first bilateral defense talks as ASD, noting that he
joined Advisor to the President for National Security Hadley
and the Secretary in making Turkey one of their first stops
after assuming office. Recalling that the President had made
the US-Turkey relationship a priority, ASD Flory noted how
important it had been to hold the HLDG as quickly as possible
after its two-year hiatus. He expressed appreciation for
Gonul's record of speaking out in support of our bilateral
relations.

--------------
Only Bilateral Problem -- the PKK
--------------


3. (C) Gonul averred that the US was "very important for the
Turkish people," not just the government or the state. This
was due to Turkey's entry into NATO and the Alliance's

importance in defending the border with the USSR. Now, there
was only one point of disagreement between Turkey and the US
-- the "very urgent, critical and crucial" issue of the PKK.
The Turkish public is growing impatient as the death toll
rises. They believe that the US could take action against
the PKK in northern Iraq if it wanted. Gonul agreed with ASD
Flory that popular perceptions can differ from reality.


4. (S) Gonul recalled that Secretary Rumsfeld had assured him
that he and others in Washington were well aware of the
situation. ASD Flory recalled that the HLDG had discussed a
broad agenda that included the PKK. EUCOM Chief of Staff LTG
Broadwater and CENTCOM Deputy J5 BG Kimmit's attendance
demonstrated that the US was ready to address the PKK issue
seriously with the Turks even if we were not yet in a
position to take all the actions the Ankara desired. Still,
a number of steps are being taken: intelligence exchanges
are producing results, and the US may be able to surge
intelligence resources for a limited period again;
intelligence and law enforcement officials have had
productive trilateral discussions; and, we are pressing the
Europeans to do more. Friends talk about difficult issues,
which was why the US side had requested the PKK be on the
HLDG agenda.

--------------
Iraq
--------------


5. (C) Gonul reiterated Turkish support for a stable,
unified, and prosperous Iraq, but expressed concern about
Kurdish aspirations in Iraq and the Iraqi Kurd's desire to
keep the PKK in their region. ASD Flory argued strongly
that, while Iraq was still a work in progress, the Iraqis
were continuing to make progress. While acknowledging all
Turkey has done to support the process in Iraq, he urged the
GOT to be an even greater positive influence there. One

possible area where Turkey could help, he said, was sharing
with Iraq Turkey's industrial know-how, showing the Iraqis
how to add value to products rather than simply exporting raw
material.


6. (C) Mr. Flory reassured Gonul that the US would remain in
Iraq until the job was done, observing that success in Iraq
would benefit Turkey. Gonul accepted that the US road map in
Iraq was the right one, and that Turkey and Iraq need each
other.

--------------
Russia and Central Asia
--------------


7. (C) ASD Flory asked Gonul for his view on Russia's
approach to Central Asia where the Russians have been
unhelpful (e.g., in Uzbekistan) and viewed the US with
suspicion. Since Turkey and Russia enjoy good relations, he
asked the GOT to reassure Moscow that the US plays a positive
role in the region. Gonul responded that the good relations
were only on trade. He saw a large part of Central Asia's
problems due largely to the region's leaders. They were all
educated in Russia; felt a sense of superiority when they
were Soviet officials representing a superpower; and, are now
trying to use nationalism. Gonul was confident that the
region's prospects would improve and Russian influence wane
with the next generation. Other factors included the
detachment of leaders from their publics and the countries'
conservative, Soviet-style bureaucracies. The latter point
he compared to Syria, where Asad must contend with the
bureaucracy he inherited from his father. With Syria, "we
have to be patient," he said. ASD Flory noted that Syria's
problems arose from the undemocratic nature of the regime,
not the structure of the government.

--------------
Ukraine and NATO
--------------


8. (C) ASD Flory inquired about Gonul's thoughts on how to
encourage reform in Ukraine, opining that many Europeans view
it the same as they view Turkey -- too big and too hard.
Gonul said Turkey supports Ukraine's eventual membership in
NATO. Compared to its neighbors, Ukraine was well advanced,
although concerns about corruption persist. Mr. Flory
agreed, noting that the concerns were serious but expressing
optimism that problems would be resolved in time.

--------------
Acquisition Issues: JSF, excess F-16s
--------------


9. (C) Gonul recalled that Turkey has a number of defense
projects with the US:

-- JSF: While Turkey is generally happy with the Joint
Strike Fighter, he complained about Turkey's "insufficient"
work-share in the program. After Turkey's successful work on
F-16s, he was confident that Turkish industry -- which had
improved since the time of the F-16 project -- could (and
should) have a bigger role in the program. ASD Flory assured
Gonul that Turkey's participation in JSF was still desired.
Defense Security Cooperation Agency Director LtGen Jeffery
Kohler recalled Turkey's relatively late participation in the
JSF project and the program's principle of best value for the
best price. He observed that Turkey was investing $175
million in the project and Turkish firms had already won $180
million in contracts. He nonetheless offered to discuss
Turkey's concerns with Lockheed Martin, noting that
significant work was still required before the aircraft would
begin production. Gonul and Defense Industry (SSM)
Undersecretary Murad Bayar believed the Turkish parliament
would look closely at work-share when considering the budget
for JSF next year.

-- Peace Onyx: Gonul noted with approval the $1 billion-plus
FMS F-16 upgrade program begun this year.

-- Excess F-16s: Gonul asked about the status of Turkey's
request for excess F-16s which he assumed would become
available as a result of the BRAC process. General Kohler

explained that force structure was addressed in the QDR, and
that would not be ready for release until early next year.
He suggested that in 6-8 months the USAF might have a better
idea of what excess aircraft it might have.

--------------
Participants
--------------


10. (C) ASD Flory and LtGen Kohler were accompanied by the
Charge, OSD/ISP DASD Dan Fata, ODC-Turkey Chief MajGen Peter
Sutton, DATT Col Roman Hrycaj, OSD/ISP Turkey Director LtCol
Joe Collins and POLMILCOUNS. In addition to Minister Gonul
and U/S Bayar, MND Policy Director RADM(L) Serdar Dulger
participated in the meeting.
MCELDOWNEY