Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05ANKARA361
2005-01-24 10:40:00
SECRET
Embassy Ankara
Cable title:  

CENTCOM COMMANDER'S MEETING WITH DEPUTY OF THE

Tags:  OVIP PTER TU 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 ANKARA 000361 

SIPDIS

STATE PLS PASS TO NEA/I, S/CT AND EU/SE DOUG SILLIMAN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/11/2015
TAGS: OVIP PTER TU
SUBJECT: CENTCOM COMMANDER'S MEETING WITH DEPUTY OF THE
TURKISH GENERAL STAFF

REF: A. AMBASSADOR ERIC S. EDELMAN

B. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).

Classified By: Ambassador Eric S. Edelman: Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 ANKARA 000361

SIPDIS

STATE PLS PASS TO NEA/I, S/CT AND EU/SE DOUG SILLIMAN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/11/2015
TAGS: OVIP PTER TU
SUBJECT: CENTCOM COMMANDER'S MEETING WITH DEPUTY OF THE
TURKISH GENERAL STAFF

REF: A. AMBASSADOR ERIC S. EDELMAN

B. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D).

Classified By: Ambassador Eric S. Edelman: Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).


1. (S) SUMMARY. GEN Abizaid met with Turkey's DCHOD GEN Ilker
Basbug on January 12. Both presented assessments of Iraq,
Afghanistan, and U.S.-TU relations. Basbug reiterated the
objectives of Turkish policies on Iraq-united, peaceful,
democratic, and whole. Both sides agreed the upcoming
elections were critical and Basbug noted Turkey's consistent
urging of strong Sunni participation. Kirkuk's unique status
also remains high on the list of Turkish concerns. Basbug
described the U.S.-Turkish relationship as strong and based
on common interests, claiming that media stories don't truly
reflect the state of our relationship. END SUMMARY.


2. (U) On January 12, GEN Abizaid met with GEN Ilker Basbug,
Deputy Chief, Turkish General Staff, to discuss the security
situation and upcoming election in Iraq, Afghanistan, and
U.S.-Turkish relations. Accompanying Basbug were TGS Chief
of Operations (J-3) LG Metin Yavuz Yalcin, TGS Chief Plans
and Principles (J-5) LG Aydogan Babaoglu, and Executive
Secretary MAJ Murat Yetkin. GEN Abizaid was joined by the

SIPDIS
Ambassador, EUCOM Director of Strategy, Plans and Assessments
MG Scott Gration, Turkey Office of Defense Cooperation Chief
MG Peter Sutton, GEN Abizaid's Executive Officer Col Joe
Reynes, PolMilCouns, and Turkey DATT Roman Hrycaj
(notetaker).


3. (C) GEN Basbug began by describing the U.S.-Turkish
relationship as "...a strong and unique partnership and
friendship based on shared common ways and interests." He
added that, "We believe coordination, consultation and
cooperation between allies is important and can overcome all
possible problems." Then directing his thoughts directly to
GEN Abizaid he said, "You are carrying a heavy and historic
responsibility on your shoulders."


4. (C) After expressing his appreciation for GEN Basbug's
hospitality, GEN Abizaid assessed current conditions in Iraq.
He said, and the situation in Iraq is very complex and
easily misunderstood by outside observers. He described the
old order as not completely defeated, but resilient and

desperate to remain in power. Salifist and Al-Zarqawi
extremist types hate the idea of elections and would do
anything to prevent them. He predicted, that Shi'a, Kurds
and Turkmen would participate strongly. The Sunni would,
too, except for the intimidation. On this election they
would be underrepresented, but that shouldn't interfere with
the selection of a representative Iraqi government with a
future for all. GEN Abizaid said he thought all groups will
reach out to the Sunni and all will participate in developing
a new constitution, but the process of drafting and ratifying
a new constitution was more important--and more fraught with
difficulty--than attaining participation in the election, he
added.


5. (C) Gen. Abizaid noted that Turkey's role was crucial to
success in Iraq. He added, that he was confident problems
could be overcome by liaison work and discussions at every
level. He reiterated our goal of an Iraq without terrorist
groups or sanctuaries and saw interests of Turkey, the United
States and Iraq, too, as congruent. GEN Abizaid also pointed
out that since 30 June 2004, more Iraqi soldiers and police
have died in Iraq than Americans, a fact he said is lost on
both the Turkish and American publics. Abizaid stressed that
the insurgency in Iraq was not a revolt of the Sunni
community. Since many if not most of the casualties are
Sunni. He continued, "What we are doing in Iraq is important
for Iraq and the region, and will ultimately be successful."
GEN Abizaid also noted the U.S. military effort in Iraq
cannot be successful without the logistical flow through
Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Turkey.


6. (C) GEN Basbug responded that the Turkish public's
position on Iraq has been well known by U.S. officials. He
said the main objective of Turkish policies is a united,
peaceful and democratic Iraq. Keeping Irag's political and
territorial integrity is also very important. Basbug asked
if there were a possibility the elections might not occur on
30 January. GEN Abizaid responded, that the clear U.S.
position is that the elections will take place 30 January,
but that they weren't U.S. elections. The Iraqi government
makes the decisions regarding the polls, he noted. He added
that the Iraqi government is planning for 30 January, and
that there would be no exceptions. The CENTCOM commander
detailed additional thoughts. He expects the polls to be
open in Mosul, but opined that if the voter intimidation
(directed primarily against the Sunni) is successful, the
Sunni Arab turnout will be less then the Shi'a or Kurds.
However, there are Sunni names on every ballot. GEN Abizaid
reminded Basbug that the peo
ple against the elections are desperate, knowing they can't
survive them after having committed crimes (including mass
murder) for 30 years. Abizaid concluded by saying he
believed that in the period immediately after the elections
there would be violence against the new leaders, but a civil
war was unlikely (though CENTCOM will vigilantly look for
warning signs).


7. (C) GEN Basbug referred to recent tensions in the Mosul
area and asked about its effect. GEN Abizaid replied that
Mosul had seen a decrease in tension as insurgent activity
now is less than a week ago because of U.S. Army battalions
and an ING battalion had been moved to Mosul. He noted the
situation had improved to the point that in some
neighborhoods people were applauding as captured insurgents
were taken away. However, he also said he thinks the enemy
will try to kill as many as possible in the next few days.


8. (C) GEN Basbug agreed with Abizaid that the insurgents are
trying to stop the elections, but expressed the belief that
if the election proceeds and the results are accepted, the
security situation will improve. Basbug expected the
post-election period when the constitution would be drafted
and put to a referendum, would be difficult. He said he
thought the discussion about the constitution would be more
contentious than the elections "by far". Basbug worried that
the TAL gave the Kurds a veto over the constitution; GEN
Abizaid noted that the TAL actually gives a veto to any three
provinces, noting that these could also be Sunni provinces.
GEN Abizaid added that many of the unanswered questions will
be decided in the process of creating and approving a new
constitution: e.g. What is the role of Islam in government?,
Will there be federal zones?, Will the structure of
government have one or two chambers?, etc. GEN Abizaid
concluded that once a constitution is written that guarantees
personal rights, it
will contribute to stability.


9. (C) The Turkish DCHOD turned to Kirkuk, stating that
Turkey is paying great attention to its status. Basbug
thought that the special status of Baghdad and Kirkuk, as
required by the Transitional Administrative Law, might be a
top problem for the constitutional process. However, he also
admitted that the Turkish military does not see another
option for Iraq, i.e. coalition/U.S. forces must be
successful. Basbug said he saw three aspects to the problem:
military, economic, and political. While hoping the elected
Iraqi government would be seen as legitimate by the Iraqi
people and predicting a bright future for the country, he
also suggested future success depended on developing Iraq's
military and security forces. GEN Basbug said Turkey had
been "fully supportive" of NATO's decision to train and equip
forces and made a proposal to NATO. Some of the offered
training, like border security and law of armed conflict had
been "very much welcomed". Although the IIG had informed
Ankara that senior Iraqi military leaders are unable to
participate in out-of-country training at this time, Basbug
hoped after the elections some senior officers could attend
such training in Turkey.

10. (C) The DCHOD turned to the NATO Mission in Afghanistan,
asking GEN Abizaid if he has any ideas on how to overcome
shortfalls in meeting NATO requirements. GEN Abizaid thought
NATO was too slow in meeting the requirements in Afghanistan.
He said that the training mission was key: it was important
to change the culture so that security forces understood that
they now served the people, not a dictator. The same was
true for Iraq, he said. Iraq won't emerge from darkness
until their forces are well trained, well equipped, and well
led.


11. (C) GEN Basbug asked for Abizaid's assessment of the new
Iraqi military's effectiveness. GEN Abizaid explained that
the army was built from the ground up, but he noted a need to
build a chain of command. He also described the Iraqis as
solid, loyal, professionals, who, ...when they performed with
us in Fallujah, did well." GEN Abizaid noted that insurgents
have concentrated on attacking Iraqi Police, and that in
earlier instances the police ran and did not fight, but that
with more training, of late, the police had fought well. He
added that the police also learned that a police unit that
surrenders may be executed by the insurgents anyway. Finally,
GEN Abizaid said the military justice system in Iraq was not
functioning and there have been cases where lawful orders
were not followed and nothing happened to the offenders.


12. (C) GEN Basbug raised the Turkish forces in Northern
Iraq. Saying that, "Turkey has liaison officers (LNOs) with
U.S. forces in Tal A'far, Kirkuk, and Mosul and that the
level of liaison cooperation was at a satisfactory level. He
noted the U.S. liaison working with Turkish Special Forces in
Silopi. He said Turkey was about increasing the level of
liaison in Baghdad from one to two officers. In northern
Iraq he noted Turkey has small groups of Special Forces, and
two battalions and that it has shared the locations of those
units with the U.S." He continued, "The presence of Turkish
military in northern Iraq is dependent on the PKK in northern
Iraq."


13. (S) "I don't want to remind again about the
As-Suleymaniah event in 2003," Basbug said referring to the
incident in which U.S. Special Forces conducted a raid on
Turkish Special Forces in northern Iraq. Basbug welcomed the
subsequent proposal from EUCOM Commander, GEN Jones, to have
meetings between two-star general representatives of the U.S.
and Turkey. LG Yalcin interjected that such meetings were not
to be routine, but on an as-needed basis, and had even been
accomplished by videoconference. GEN Basbug said that we
cannot have another incident like As-Suleymaniah, and GEN
Abizaid responded that we shouldn't let issues become
exaggerated because of press reports.


14. (C) GEN Basbug said As-Suleymaniah was an exception, and
that he wanted to thank GEN Abizaid for the excellent job
U.S. forces did in Mosul to drive off insurgents who attacked
the Turkish Police convoy enroute to Baghdad. U.S. forces
attacked the insurgents, treated the wounded Turkish Police,
recovered the bodies of those killed and expedited the return
of the remains back to Turkey.


15. (C) GEN Basbug asked GEN Abizaid whether he saw foresaw
any possible problems in Afghanistan for the Turkish military
taking over command of ISAF. GEN Abizaid replied that the
situation in Afghanistan continues to improve, with the next
elections being provincial. GEN Abizaid thought there might
be a spike in violence and that part of the problem was a
lack of proper preparation by Afghan election officials. The
elections might be delayed because of violence expected in
certain border regions, which would be inevitable as
Pakistani military forces moved north and coalition force
come south. GEN Basbug agreed the elections might be
delayed. GEN Abizaid concluded encouraging other countries
to take on PRTs (Provincial Reconstruction Teams)
particularly. More countries need to lead in the West.


16. (C) For his last point, GEN Basbug returned to the
U.S.-Turkish military relationship, saying, "We haven't seen
any serious lack of consultations, cooperation or
coordination." He continued, "Sometimes the media create a
slanted story, but media stories don't truly reflect our
relationship." As examples of the continuing interaction GEN
Basbug explained he was going to visit EUCOM in March and
thought the bilateral HLDG (High Level Defense Group) would
meet in April. (Comment: We now expect the HLDG to occur in
June.)

17. (C) AMB Edelman took the opportunity to agree with GEN
Basbug that relations, military-to-military and
government-to-government, are quite good, but added that both
sides needed to work to prevent creation of a public void
regarding common interests and values." AMB Edelman stressed
both sides have an obligation to "...say it in public."


18. (U) Baghdad Minimize Considered.
EDELMAN