ATTORNEY GENERAL PRAISES US-EU EFFORTS TO FIGHT

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 05 THE HAGUE 002642

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E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PTER PREL ATRN KCRM NL EUN
SUBJECT: ATTORNEY GENERAL PRAISES US-EU EFFORTS TO FIGHT
COUNTERTERRORISM AT JHA INFORMAL COUNCIL IN THE HAGUE ON
SEPT. 30

REF: (A) The Hague 2507 (B) The Hague 2445

THIS CABLE CONTAINS SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
PLEASE HANDLE ACCORDINGLY.


1. (U) SUMMARY: In a JHA Troika meeting and a meeting on the
margins of the JHA Informal Council, AG Ashcroft and DHS U/S
Hutchinson praised EU cooperation with the U.S. in fighting
terrorism. These meetings built on the September 18 EU
Troika meeting attended by DHS Sec. Ridge (Reftel B) and
reflected the EU's effort to include the AG and DHS
Secretary in JHA processes. The AG urged greater

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information sharing to ensure the freedom and security of US
and EU citizens. The U.S. and EU agreed to group
information in three categories - police/judicial,
intelligence and borders security - allowing it to be shared
and protected differently. The AG announced the assignment
of an FBI Agent to Europol for joint cooperation on
counterterrorism. [Note: Sec. Ridge had announced the
assignment of a Secret Service Agent to assist with
counterfeiting cooperation.] EU President Dutch Justice
Minister Donner pledged to institutionalize annual US-EU JHA
Ministerial meetings, stating that EU Ministers would invite
both the DHS Secretary and AG to future JHA sessions. The
U.S. and EU also agreed to use Eurojust as a forum for
sharing best practices/lessons learned in fighting
terrorism. During his two-day trip, the AG signed bilateral
protocols with the Dutch and French implementing the US-EU
Mutual Legal Assistance and Extradition Agreements (MLA&E).
END SUMMARY.

JHA TROIKA MEETING
--------------


2. (U) The AG and DHS Under Secretary Hutchinson visited The
Hague Sept. 28-30 to address the Justice, Home, Interior and
Immigration Ministers of the EU Member States on the margins
of the Sept. 30 EU JHA Informal Council. The AG and U/S had
an informal working dinner Sept. 29 with the EU JHA Troika
(NL Justice Minister Donner, LUX Justice Minister Frieden,
JHA EU Commissioner Vitorino) to focus on CT law enforcement
efforts. Donner reviewed the Sept. 18 Troika discussions
with DHS Sec. Ridge (Reftel B) and proposed using the Sept.
30 address to send the message that fighting terrorism was a
"common project." The U.S. and EU agreed to focus on
advancing issues both sides agree on and de-emphasized areas
of controversy, re-casting them as pursuits towards a common
purpose. The AG thanked the JHA Troika for their
willingness to give the U.S. a chance to be heard in their
discussions and expressed appreciation for EU CT cooperation
since 9/11. The agenda included a discussion of information
sharing, prevention of terrorism, US cooperation with
Europol and Eurojust, and a brief discussion of the Hague
Securities Convention.


3. (U) On the topic of information sharing, Donner proposed
dividing the problem of information sharing into three
general categories: criminal/judicial, CT intelligence and
border and transportation security since each has its own
particular issues. U/S Hutchinson and Commissioner Vitorino
both agreed differentiating between different types of
information was useful. The U/S stated, for example, border
security information sharing, especially the sharing of
passport information and biometric data, should comprise a
separate category with different processes and requirements
for the exchange and use of information. The AG agreed with
Donner to continue discussions to improve sharing of
criminal/judicial information in the established JHA
dialogue. On the issue of intelligence sharing, the AG
stated it would be useful to have experts, in particular
magistrates and prosecutors, convene for discussions under
the auspices of Eurojust. As to border and transportation
security, the AG agreed with the U/S it would be appropriate
to channel those discussions into the Policy Dialogue on
Border and Transport Security (PDBTS). The AG stressed that
while such classification provided a useful analytical
framework, he warned against "stovepiping" and the creation
of bureaucratic obstacles to information sharing. He argued
any framework should serve to remove obstacles, not set in
place new ones. Frieden commented that while the need to
share and exploit border and transportation security
information existed, unnecessary access to it must be
strictly controlled. He suggested a step-by-step approach,
whereby parties could set up a timetable and roadmap for
greater information sharing. The AG also announced the
creation of an FBI liaison to Europol as means by which to
enhance information sharing.


4. (U) Vitorino called for greater dialogue on future
initiatives changing collection and use of information. He
noted the U.S. had led the way in seeking additional
information, like with PNR and biometrics, and Europe
usually followed suit, since the EU shared the same CT
concerns as the U.S. He stressed, however, that it was
easier to EUR to act in concert with U.S. information
requests when it was seen as a true partnership - and not as
Europe following U.S. dictates. Advance notice of new
initiatives on information sharing allowed policies to be
debated and developed on both sides of the Atlantic. He
cited the PNR initiative as catching Europe off-guard and
asked for prior consultation on how the U.S. would address
the September 11 Commission recommendations so Europe could
prepare for any new changes. EU CT Coordinator De Vries
echoed his comments.


5. (U) Under "prevention of terrorism," Vitorino admitted
freezing assets within the EU was cumbersome as it required
consent of all 25 Member States. The EU Commissioner said
the EU needed a legal framework to improve the exchange of
information and registration of bank accounts, and a means
by which to secure the cooperation of financial
institutions. Donner proposed a meeting of experts
organized through Eurojust to address signs and signals of
terrorism - this meeting would review existing completed
cases to "tease out" facts helpful in understanding the
terrorists. A separate expert group would profile of those
most susceptible to recruitment for Jihad. There was also a
need for an expert group to organize the joint forensic
examination of frozen assets. The AG agreed such expert
meetings were needed. USEU DoJ Senior Counselor Richard
highlighted ongoing projects in Europol and Eurojust.


6. (U) The U.S. and EU agreed to work to improve cooperation
between US law enforcement agencies and Europol. Richard
suggested using Eurojust as a forum for expert group
meetings on developing intelligence and sharing experiences.
De Vries agreed that using Europol and Eurojust as
frameworks for upgrading contacts between U.S. law
enforcement would be excellent.


7. (U) In a final comment, Vitorino broached the subject of
the Hague Securities Convention, suggesting it could be
adopted by the end of the year. The AG responded that while
the US foresees no obstacles to the progress of the
convention, it was being vetted through the interagency
process.

MEETING WITH EU MEMBER STATES MINISTERS ON THE MARGIN OF THE
JHA INFORMAL
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8. (U) At the Sept. 30 meeting of the EU Member State JHA
ministers, Donner re-iterated his theme from the previous
night - that the U.S. and EU had a "common interest to
improve common capacity" to fight terrorism and both have
common objectives to keep Europe safe. He announced the
results of the Troika meetings with AG Ashcroft and Sec.
Ridge: agreement to group information in three categories -
police/judicial, intelligence and borders security;
assignment of FBI and Secret Service agents to Europol;
agreement to use Eurojust as a forum for CT "lessons
learned" and meetings of CT experts; expansion of the role
of both Eurojust and Europol to deal with terrorist
financing; and the status of the Hague Convention on
Securities. Donner also raised the issue of VWP access for
new Member States. Donner noted the Netherlands had just
signed its bilateral protocols implementing the US-EU Mutual
Legal Assistance and Extradition Agreements and urged other
Member States to complete the process as quickly as
possible. Vitorino stressed the same point.


9. (U) The AG expressed appreciation to his EU counterparts
for their CT efforts and for meeting the challenges posed
after 9/11. He stated democratic nations must protect the
laws and liberties of people. He also called for increased
efforts to establish durable transatlantic ties and for
improved law enforcement and CT efforts to protect people
against crime and terrorism: "We have a common and ruthless
enemy." He announced that an experienced FBI agent would be
posted in The Hague to work with Europol and looked forward
for the opportunity to work with Eurojust on information
sharing. In closing, the AG highlighted corruption as a
major force contributing to terrorist recruitment.


10. (U) U/S Hutchinson told the ministers the U.S. was
creating principles and guidelines to limit problems on
border security issues. He said the U.S. was anxious to
share best practices with the EU on transportation security
and he welcomed a dialogue on the Visa Waiver Program with
Member States. Speaking on the first day travelers from VWP
countries were being enrolled in US VISIT, he stressed the
importance of the program in establishing identity. In
reference to the upcoming VWP deadline for machine readable
passports, he pledged the U.S. would not turn people away
the first time solely for not carrying the proper machine
readable passport.

FRENCH, GERMAN, POLISH AND ROMANIAN MEETINGS
--------------


11. (U) The AG also met with French Justice Minister Perben,
and they signed the U.S.-French protocols to the US-EU MLA&E
Agreements. The AG thanked Perben for French
counterterrorism assistance and discussed the Moussaoui
case. The AG agreed to look into the status of the
remaining three French nationals at Guantanamo. AG Ashcroft
also met with German Interior Minister Schily and discussed
the Motassadeq case. In the meeting with The AG's
discussions with Polish Interior Minister Kalisz and Deputy
Justice Minister Krolak, the AG addressed law enforcement
issues, including organized crime and Poland's inability to
extradite nationals. The Polish ministers raised several
mutual legal assistance and prisoner transfer matters, but
focused particularly on the visa waiver issue, noting Poland
was a strong ally in Iraq. They also expressed concern over
Chechens seeking asylum. The AG met with Romanian
Administration and Interior Minister Saniuta and Justice
Minister Diaconescu and discussed Romania's anti-corruption
efforts and the SECI center. The AG praised Romania's new
willingness to extradite nationals, suggesting that might
pave the way for a modernized extradition treaty.
OTHER MEETINGS FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
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12. (U) Following the Sept. 29 signing of the US-Dutch
bilateral protocol to the US-EU Mutual Legal Assistance and
Extradition Agreements (Reftel A),the AG met with Donner
and senior Justice Ministry officials to discuss bilateral
law enforcement efforts. The AG praised new Dutch CT
legislation and proposals, especially those aimed at
preventing terrorist acts. He also applauded Dutch efforts
to fight Ecstasy, but urged the Dutch to consider all
organized crime (and CT) as having a US nexus and to share
information on drug traffickers accordingly. Donner
responded with examples of greater Dutch information
sharing, stating the Netherlands was concluding the first
European agreement with the DEA to join EPIC, and Dutch
barriers to the sharing of information on drug traffic
through third countries were being abolished. [Note: DEA
Administrator Karen Tandy signed this agreement with the
Dutch October 8.] The Justice Minister agreed in principle
to the US request for access to the "blacklist" - a list of
passengers from the Netherlands Antilles caught trafficking
drugs through Schiphol. He said, however, the U.S. must
explain precisely the intended recipients of the information
and how the information would be used in order to satisfy
his data protection concerns. The AG agreed to work with
the Justice Minister to satisfy his data protection
objectives.


13. (U) The AG praised the Dutch attitude toward
extraditions as "constructive." Donner asked about the
remarks on Dutch extradition contained in the President's
Majors List transmittal letter and received assurances these
comments reflected only a small number of specific cases but
did not reflect the broader relationship. Donner briefly
touched on asset seizure, stating the Dutch would like to
move in the direction of the Camden Asset Recovery
Interagency Network (CARIN) network discussed last week in
The Hague.


14. (U) The AG also met with senior Dutch CT officials on
Sept. 29 and with senior Dutch prosecutors on Sept. 30,
stressing the themes of positive cooperation and partnership
with the Dutch on CT and law enforcement, as well as the
need to continue the fight against crime and terrorism.


15. (SBU) AG Ashcroft met with International Criminal
Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) President Ted
Meron and Chief Prosecutor Del Ponte in separate courtesy
calls during his visit. Meron reviewed the structure of the
Court, highlighting the distinction between its ad hoc
Security Council-derived nature and that of the
International Criminal Court (ICC). Meron also underscored
his efforts to guide the Tribunal towards a successful
completion of its mandate. Del Ponte expressed frustration
at the number of outstanding fugitives, noting that U.S. led
forces had been able to apprehend Saddam Hussein and she
didn't know "why it was so difficult to get Karadzic and
Mladic." The AG reassured Del Ponte of the U.S. commitment
to seeing such fugitives apprehended and explained that
other major terrorist fugitives, despite the best efforts of
the United States, remained outstanding. Deputy Prosecutor
David Tolbert described the ICTY Prosecutor's support of war
crimes-related investigations and prosecutions being
conducted by AUSA's in Boston, Phoenix and North Carolina.
The AG thanked Del Ponte for her support these efforts and
conveyed DOJ's willingness to provide any assistance needed
in the Tribunal's investigation and prosecution of war
crimes.


16. (U) AG Ashcroft, with Assistant AG Hewitt Pate, had a 30-
minute introductory meeting with newly appointed European
Commissioner for Competition Policy Neelie Kroes. The AG
noted how pleased he had been when he had first heard of
Mrs. Kroes's appointment in light of her extensive business
experience and how that could inform her decision-making.
He complimented Mrs. Kroes on her performance at the
European Parliament the day before, when she had defended
herself against allegations her business background would
bias her decisions; Mrs. Kroes had said that, like a soccer
referee, her knowledge of the business world would make her
a more informed, though nonetheless impartial, arbiter of
the issues before her. Both the Attorney General and Mrs.
Kroes stressed the need for a vigorous pro-competitive
policy as an essential factor for achieving economic
progress, with the AG saying those who sought protection
from competition were in reality trying to protect
themselves from the future. Mrs. Kroes promised to continue
the cooperation and open communication with the Justice
Department that had been practiced by her predecessor, Mario
Monti.

U/S HUTCHINSON'S PROGRAM
--------------


17. (U) In addition to his participation in EU meetings with
the Attorney General, the U/S held bilateral meetings with
Dutch border and transportation security officials and
European private sector stakeholders. On September 29, he
received a briefing from Port of Rotterdam officials on how
they have been able to comply with international, EU and
national shipping security requirements. The Port officials
explained how they use a web-based port security "wizard" to
aid its 142 constituent terminals in achieving ISPS code.
The U/S and his staff also observed the real-time, high tech
port traffic control center. The following day, the U/S
held discussions with Schiphol Airport customs, immigration
and security officers and met with the ISI team.
Discussions highlighted the successes of ISI, a program
supported by the airlines, Dutch Immigration Services, and
Royal Marechaussee. The U/S also viewed a demonstration of
the airport's iris-scan based Privium trusted flier program.


18. (U) The Under Secretary also met with Dutch Justice and
Interior Ministries officials, including Tjibbe Joustra, the
newly appointed counter-terrorism coordinator, and discussed
Joustra's plan to restructure Dutch CT efforts. The U/S
invited Joustra to visit the US. He also visited the
National Coordination Center, a 24/7 operations center for
handling crisis situations. Finally, the U/S met with
executives from European companies and the Ministry of
Transportation to consult on new border and transportation
security technologies under development.

PRESS
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19. (U) Press covered the two bilateral protocol signings
and the JHA press conference. About 100 members of the
media attended the press conference at which Attorney
General Ashcroft explained the challenges the U.S. and the
EU had faced since 9/11 and 3/11 and expressed his
appreciation for the cooperation the U.S. had experienced
with the EU. He spoke of the goal of every government to
protect its people against crime and terrorism. The AG
referred to a common and ruthless enemy and cited the steps
the U.S. and the EU were taking together against this enemy.
Coverage from these events resulted in over 52 stories
worldwide, emphasizing the AG's comments about working
multilaterally against a common enemy, reinforcing the story
that terrorism is not just an American issue. [Note: This
followed similar coverage of Secretary Ridge's visit, which
resulted in over 82 stories worldwide.]

COMMENT
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20. (U) The visits by the AG and DHS Secretary and U/S - all
covered extensively in the press - highlighted US-EU aims to
establish additional forums for future cooperation. The two
sides emphasized commonalities - a theme carried by both
Secretary Ridge and the AG. Post is encouraged by the

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progress made during the successive US-EU Troika meetings,
and looks forward to the follow-through pledged by Frieden
and the British to ensure the US voice is heard during
future JHA Ministerial discussions.


21. (U) This cable has been cleared in draft by DOJ and DHS.

SOBEL