USCIRF MEETINGS WITH RELIGIOUS FIGURES IN

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 HANOI 000559

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV AND DRL/RF
DEPARTMENT PASS TO USCIRF

SECDEF FOR ABLAGG

E.O. 12958: DECL 03/12/2012
TAGS: PHUM KIRF SOCI VM HUMANR ETMIN RELFREE
SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETINGS WITH RELIGIOUS FIGURES IN
HANOI

REF: A. HANOI 432 B. HANOI 443


C. HO CHI MINH CITY 236 D. HO CHI MINH CITY 237

E. HO CHI MINH CITY 238
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 HANOI 00559 01 OF 03 120747Z


1. (U ) CLASSIFIED BY RAYMOND F. BURGHARDT,
AMBASSADOR; REASON 1.5(D)


2. (C) SUMMARY: THE COMPLEX AND EVOLVING
INTERRELATIONS BETWEEN RELIGION AND GOVERNMENT IN
VIETNAM CAME TO LIGHT IN UNOFFICIAL MEETINGS BETWEEN A
DELEGATION FROM THE U.S. COMMISSION FOR INTERNATIONAL
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM (USCIRF) AND TWO HANOI RELIGIOUS
FIGURES. WHILE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS OF THE
OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED HANOI-BASED EVANGELICAL CHURCH
OF VIETNAM (ECVN) OPERATE WITH FEW RESTRICTIONS, THE
GVN HAS NOT PERMITTED THE ECVN'S LEADERSHIP TO MEET
SINCE 1988. THE GVN SEEMS TO REGARD THE ACTING
CHAIRMAN WITH SOME SUSPICION AND WILL NOT RECOGNIZE
ANY LEADERSHIP CHANGES. MEANWHILE, THE MONKS AT
HANOI'S HISTORIC ONE PILLAR PAGODA ARE THE FOCUS OF A
COMPLICATED STRUGGLE PRIMARILY INVOLVING FACTIONS OF
THE RECOGNIZED BUDDHIST CHURCH AND THE LOCAL
GOVERNMENT. THIS STRUGGLE HAS DRAWN IN THE DOMESTIC
AND INTERNATIONAL PRESS, AND A PROMINENT DEMOCRACY
ACTIVIST. REFTELS REPORT ON THE USCIRF DELEGATION'S
OTHER MEETINGS IN HANOI AND HO CHI MINH CITY. END
SUMMARY.


3. (C) ON FEBRUARY 22, USCIRF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
STEVEN MCFARLAND AND ANALYST JOHN TAI, ACCOMPANIED BY
EMBOFFS, MET PASTOR AU QUANG VINH OF THE ECVN AT THE
PROTESTANT CHURCH IN HANOI. PASTOR VINH SAID THAT HE
WAS THE ACTING CHAIRMAN OF THE ECVN, BUT THAT SINCE
HIS STATUS HAD NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE GVN HE WAS
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 HANOI 00559 01 OF 03 120747Z
SPEAKING TO THE DELEGATION IN HIS ROLE AS THE PASTOR
OF THE ECVN CONGREGATION IN HANOI. PASTOR VINH STATED
THAT HIS FELLOW PASTORS IN THE ECVN REQUESTED THAT HE
BECOME ACTING-CHAIRMAN OF THE ECVN MANAGEMENT COUNCIL
AFTER THE DEATH OF THE INCUMBENT IN 1999. HE SAID
THAT THE GVN HAS NOT ALLOWED THE COUNCIL TO MEET SINCE
1988, DESPITE ANNUAL ECVN REQUESTS. HE SAID THAT THE
GVN NEVER GAVE A REASON FOR DENYING PERMISSION TO
MEET. DUE TO HIS UNOFFICIAL STATUS PASTOR VINH
CLAIMED THE GVN SUBJECTED HIM TO ADDITIONAL SCRUTINY
AND QUESTIONING. HE SAID THAT THE GVN HAD LABELED HIM
A "REACTIONARY" ELEMENT IN THE EARLY 1990'S AFTER HE
HELPED PUBLISH A HMONG LANGUAGE BIBLE WITHOUT
AUTHORIZATION.


4. (C) PASTOR VINH DESCRIBED THE ECVN'S ORGANIZATION
IN 14 CONGREGATIONS SCATTERED AROUND NORTHERN VIETNAM.
THERE ARE THREE IN HAIPHONG AND EIGHT IN OTHER
NORTHERN TOWNS AND CITIES. THE 14 GOVERNMENT
RECOGNIZED CONGREGATIONS ALSO INCLUDE THREE GROUPS OF
ETHNIC HMONG AND GIAY IN NORTHWESTERN PROVINCES. HE
ADDED THAT THREE OF THESE GROUPS DO NOT HAVE PASTORS
OR CHURCH BUILDINGS, BUT THAT THEY HAVE SOME LAY
LEADERS. HE ALSO SAID THAT WHILE THE GVN HAS NOT
ALLOWED THE ECVN TO OPERATE A TRAINING FACILITY SINCE
1993, HE TRAINS PASTORS ANYWAY, IN SECRET. PASTOR
VINH SAID THAT THE ETHNIC KINH CONGREGATIONS AVERAGE
ABOUT 1000 MEMBERS AND THAT THE MINORITY CONGREGATIONS
ARE CONSIDERABLY LARGER. HIS OWN CONGREGATION IN
HANOI NUMBERS ABOUT 800, MOSTLY YOUNG PEOPLE. BY
CONTRAST, A FEW YEARS AGO, IT WAS A RELATIVELY OLD
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 04 HANOI 00559 01 OF 03 120747Z
GROUP AND ONLY NUMBERED ABOUT 150.


5. (C) DESPITE THE PROBLEMS FACED BY THE ECVN,
PASTOR VINH SAID THAT HE FELT THE OVERALL SITUATION
FOR RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS IN VIETNAM IS CONSIDERABLY
BETTER THAN IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO. IN RESPONSE TO A
QUESTION FROM MCFARLAND, PASTOR VINH VOICED DOUBT THAT
U.S. SANCTIONS WOULD HAVE A BENEFICIAL EFFECT ON
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN VIETNAM. HE SAID THAT HE THOUGHT
DIALOGUE HAD BROUGHT GOOD RESULTS SO FAR AND EXPRESSED
FAITH THAT THE SITUATION WOULD CONTINUE TO IMPROVE.
HE ALSO NOTED THE IRONY THAT SEEMING GVN DISAPPROVAL
OF THE PROTESTANT CHURCH APPEARED TO BOTH ATTRACT THE
CURIOUS AND STRENGTHEN THE FAITH OF BELIEVERS. (NOTE:
POLOFF WAS NOT PRESENT DURING THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION
BETWEEN PASTOR VINH AND THE USCIRF DELEGATION. END
NOTE.)


6. (C) ON FEBRUARY 21, THE ENTIRE DELEGATION
INCLUDING COMMISSIONER FIRUZ KAZEMZADEH, STEVEN
MCFARLAND, AND JOHN TAI, ACCOMPANIED BY EMBOFFS,
VISITED ONE PILLAR PAGODA AND ASKED TO SPEAK WITH THE
ABBOT. AFTER A FEW MINUTES THICH TAM KIEN, WHO

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL PTQ3820

PAGE 01 HANOI 00559 02 OF 03 120747Z
ACTION EAP-00

INFO LOG-00 NP-00 AID-00 AMAD-00 CIAE-00 SRPP-00 EB-00
ED-01 OIGO-00 E-00 HHS-01 H-01 TEDE-00 INR-00
IO-00 LAB-01 L-00 NSAE-00 NSCE-00 OIC-02 OPIC-01
PC-01 PRS-00 P-00 SP-00 SS-00 STR-00 TRSE-00
USIE-00 PRM-00 DRL-02 G-00 NFAT-00 SAS-00 /010W
-------------- 72F133 120747Z /38
P 120722Z MAR 02
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 5747
INFO SECDEF WASHDC
USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 02 OF 03 HANOI 000559

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV AND DRL/RF
DEPARTMENT PASS TO USCIRF

SECDEF FOR ABLAGG

DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS THE ASSISTANT ABBOT AND THE
JUNIOR OF THE TWO MONKS AT ONE PILLAR PAGODA, APPEARED
AND SAID THAT THE ABBOT WAS NOT PRESENT, BUT THAT HE
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 HANOI 00559 02 OF 03 120747Z
COULD SPEAK TO THE DELEGATION. AFTER INTRODUCTIONS,
MCFARLAND ASKED THICH TAM KIEN ABOUT REPORTS THAT THE
GVN WAS TRYING TO REPLACE THE PAGODA'S ABBOT. THE
MONK REPLIED THAT THIS WAS TRUE AND THAT THE
AUTHORITIES WERE TRYING TO REMOVE HIM AS WELL. HE
SAID THAT HE HAD BEEN THE ONLY STUDENT OF THE FORMER
ABBOT, WHO DIED IN JULY 1996. THE NEW ABBOT HAD
ADOPTED HIM AS HIS STUDENT, BUT THE ABBOT'S
ASSIGNMENT TO ONE PILLAR PAGODA WAS TECHNICALLY
"TEMPORARY" AND HE WAS ALSO THE ABBOT OF ANOTHER HANOI
PAGODA.


7. (C) THICH TAM KIEN SAID THAT EFFORTS TO REPLACE
THE TWO MONKS AT ONE PILLAR PAGODA REPRESENTED NOT
ONLY A STRUGGLE BETWEEN DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE
CENTRAL BUDDHIST SANGHA (CBS--THE OFFICIALLY
RECOGNIZED BUDDHIST ORGANIZATION),BUT AN EFFORT OF
THE BA DINH DISTRICT (A SUBDIVISION OF HANOI)
GOVERNMENT TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE PAGODA. THICH TAM
KIEN CITED "DECISION LETTER 927 OF THE BA DINH
PEOPLE'S COMMITTEE" DATED JULY 27, 1999 IN WHICH THE
LOCAL AUTHORITIES ASKED THE ABBOT TO LEAVE ONE PILLAR
PAGODA ON THE GROUNDS OF HIS AGE AND RESPONSIBILITY
FOR TWO PAGODAS. THICH TAM KIEN CLAIMED THAT THE CBS
AND BA DINH DISTRICT WISHED TO ASSIGN THICH THANH
PHUC, WHOM HE DESCRIBED AS THE CHIEF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS
REPRESENTATIVE IN THE DISTRICT AND AS SOMEONE CLOSE TO
LOCAL AUTHORITIES, TO ONE PILLAR PAGODA. IN ANSWER TO
A QUESTION FROM MCFARLAND, THICH TAM KIEN SAID THAT
THE DISTRICT AUTHORITIES HAD NO ROLE IN DECIDING WHO
THE ABBOT SHOULD BE.
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 HANOI 00559 02 OF 03 120747Z


8. (C) THICH TAM KIEN SAID THAT HE WROTE A LETTER
FOR HIS NEW MASTER REFUSING THE DISTRICT'S REQUEST
THAT THE ABBOT LEAVE. HE SAID THAT THE CENTRAL GROUP
WITHIN THE CBS WANTED TOTAL CONTROL OF THE PAGODA, SO
THEY DEMOTED HIM AND STRIPPED HIM OF HIS RANK ON THE
GROUNDS OF AN UNSPECIFIED VIOLATION OF BUDDHIST
MORALS. THICH TAM KIEN SAID THAT HE WENT TO HIS
ORIGINAL MASTER IN HO CHI MINH CITY WHO ADVISED HIM TO
FILE A WRITTEN COMPLAINT WITH THE BOARD THAT TOOK
ACTION AGAINST HIM ASKING THEM FOR PROOF OF THE CHARGE
AND TO RE-INSTATE HIM IF THEY WOULD NOT. HE SAID THAT
THERE HAD BEEN NO OFFICIAL ACTION SINCE THEN AND THAT
HE KEPT HIS TITLE AND RANK.


9. (C) ON APRIL 30, 2000, THICH TAM KIEN CLAIMED HE
RECEIVED A LETTER FROM "LOCAL AUTHORITIES" STATING
THAT IF HE DID NOT LEAVE, THEY WOULD ASK "OTHER
FORCES" TO PHYSICALLY REMOVE HIM FROM ONE PILLAR
PAGODA. HE SAID THAT THE LETTER ONLY MENTIONED HIM
NOT HIS MASTER. HE SPECULATED THAT THE LOCAL
AUTHORITIES DID NOT WANT TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE
ABBOT BECAUSE THEY FEARED HUMAN RIGHTS COMPLAINTS,
NOTING THAT THE ABBOT HAD A NETWORK OF CONTACTS IN THE
U.S. AND FRANCE. NOW HE WAS BEGINNING TO INHERIT THIS
NETWORK FROM HIS MASTER, HE SAID. NONETHELESS, THICH
TAM KIEN CLAIMED THAT THE VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE
DISTRICT THREATENED HIM WITH PHYSICAL HARM IF HE DID
NOT RESIGN. HE RECOUNTED THAT THE THREAT GOT OUT ON
THE INTERNET AND WAS PICKED UP BY THE BBC, PROMPTING
THE DISTRICT CHAIRMAN TO MEET WITH JOURNALISTS TO
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 04 HANOI 00559 02 OF 03 120747Z
"CLARIFY" THE SITUATION. CONSEQUENTLY, HE SAID THAT
NOW LOCAL AUTHORITIES COULD NOT MOVE THEM BECAUSE OF
INTERNATIONAL ATTENTION. ASIDE FROM THE INTERNATIONAL
SUPPORT THE TWO MONKS HAVE RECEIVED, THICH TAM KIEN
CLAIMED THAT HIGH-RANKING MONKS IN HO CHI MINH CITY,
INCLUDING HIS ORIGINAL MASTER, ARE ON THEIR SIDE.
MOREOVER, HE SAID THAT TUOI TRE NEWSPAPER, THE
OFFICIAL ORGAN OF THE HO CHI MINH CITY YOUTH LEAGUE,
HAD ADVOCATED THEIR CAUSE. FINALLY HE ADDED THAT
DEMOCRACY ACTIVIST PHAM QUE DUONG HAD INTERVENED IN
SOME WAY, CLAIMING THAT DUONG HAD ALSO HELPED STOP
DESTRUCTION OF THE PAGODA SEVERAL YEARS AGO TO MAKE
MORE ROOM FOR THE NEARBY MUSEUM DEDICATED TO HO CHI
MINH.


10. (C) THICH TAM KIEN CONCLUDED BY ASKING THE
USCIRF DELEGATION TO TAKE UP THREE POINTS WITH THE GVN
ON BEHALF OF HIS MASTER AND HIM:
-- TO "ABOLISH THE ILLEGAL ORDINANCE AND DECISION OF
BA DINH DISTRICT" ABOUT THE PAGODA
-- TO REQUEST THAT HIS MASTER BE APPOINTED THE
PERMANENT ABBOT OF ONE PILLAR PAGODA
-- TO OFFICIALLY TRANSFER HIS RESIDENCE REGISTRATION

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL PTQ3821

PAGE 01 HANOI 00559 03 OF 03 120747Z
ACTION EAP-00

INFO LOG-00 NP-00 AID-00 AMAD-00 CIAE-00 SRPP-00 EB-00
ED-01 OIGO-00 E-00 HHS-01 H-01 TEDE-00 INR-00
IO-00 LAB-01 L-00 NSAE-00 NSCE-00 OIC-02 OPIC-01
PC-01 PRS-00 P-00 SP-00 SS-00 STR-00 TRSE-00
USIE-00 PRM-00 DRL-02 G-00 NFAT-00 SAS-00 /010W
-------------- 72F139 120747Z /38
P 120722Z MAR 02
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 5748
INFO SECDEF WASHDC
USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 03 OF 03 HANOI 000559

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV AND DRL/RF
DEPARTMENT PASS TO USCIRF

SECDEF FOR ABLAGG

AND OFFICIAL RELIGIOUS REGISTRATION TO ONE PILLAR
PAGODA.
THE DELEGATION MADE NO REPLY TO THICH TAM KIEN'S
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 HANOI 00559 03 OF 03 120747Z
REQUEST. SEPARATELY, ON FEBRUARY 23, MCFARLAND ASKED
THICH THANH TU, THE SECOND RANKING OFFICIAL IN THE
CBS, ABOUT THE STATUS OF ONE PILLAR PAGODA'S ABBOT.
THICH THANH TU REPLIED, "HE IS STILL THERE," BUT WOULD
NOT COMMENT FURTHER.


11. (C) COMMENT: PASTOR VINH HAS EXPRESSED
RELUCTANCE TO MEET WITH EMBOFFS IN THE PAST, CITING
PROBLEMS HE HAS WITH THE POLICE. WHILE HE POINTED OUT
A NUMBER OF THE ECVN'S PROBLEMS, MOST NOTABLY ITS
INABILITY TO MAKE OFFICIAL DECISIONS SINCE 1988, HIS
OVERALL APPRAISAL WAS CLEARLY POSITIVE. THICH TAM
KIEN'S ACCOUNT GAVE AN UNEXPECTED GLIMPSE INTO THE
COMPLEXITY OF THE CBS'S INTERNAL MACHINATIONS AND
INTERACTIONS WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES. THICH THANH TU'S
SUCCINCT, "HE IS STILL THERE," MAY INDICATE A DE FACTO
CBS DECISION TO LEAVE THE ABBOT WHERE HE IS. PARTS OF
THICH TAM KIEN'S STORY ARE DIFFICULT TO VERIFY AND IT
IS EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO KNOW HIS ENTIRE AGENDA, AS
COMMISSIONER KAZEMZADEH POINTED OUT. DURING THE YOUNG
MONK'S CONVERSATION WITH THE DELEGATION HE APPEARED TO
DECIDE TO GIVE THE DELEGATION MORE AND MORE DETAIL,
REPEATING SOME OF HIS EARLIER POINTS IN MORE DEPTH.
HIS MENTION OF PHAM QUE DUONG'S ASSISTANCE AND HIS
UNSOLICITED CITATION OF DUONG'S ADDRESS AND CELL PHONE
NUMBER WAS SURPRISING. DUONG, ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF
THE SEPTEMBER 2001 PROPOSAL TO ESTABLISH AN NGO
CORRUPTION WATCHDOG GROUP, IS A RELATIVELY HIGH
PROFILE ACTIVIST AND CRITIC OF THE GVN AND CPV WHO
USED TO BE EDITOR OF THE ARMY'S POLITICAL JOURNAL.
END COMMENT.
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 HANOI 00559 03 OF 03 120747Z


12. (U) THE USCIRF DELEGATION WAS UNABLE TO REVIEW
THIS CABLE BEFORE THEY LEFT VIETNAM.
BURGHARDT

CONFIDENTIAL