Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
01VATICAN6539
2001-12-19 14:38:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Vatican
Cable title:  

AMBASSADOR MEETS WITH VATICAN CHINA EXPERT

Tags:  PREL PHUM CH VT TA 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 006539 

SIPDIS

DEPT FOR EUR/WE (MENNUTI); DRL/IRF (FARR)

E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/18/2011
TAGS: PREL PHUM CH VT TA
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR MEETS WITH VATICAN CHINA EXPERT


CLASSIFIED BY: CLASSIFIED BY AMBASSADOR R.J. NICHOLSON FOR REASONS 1.5
(A) AND (D).

C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 006539

SIPDIS

DEPT FOR EUR/WE (MENNUTI); DRL/IRF (FARR)

E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/18/2011
TAGS: PREL PHUM CH VT TA
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR MEETS WITH VATICAN CHINA EXPERT


CLASSIFIED BY: CLASSIFIED BY AMBASSADOR R.J. NICHOLSON FOR REASONS 1.5
(A) AND (D).


1. (C) AMBASSADOR NICHOLSON CALLED ON ARCHBISHOP MARIA CELLI,
SECRETARY OF THE ADMINISTRATION FOR THE PATRIMONY OF THE

SIPDIS
APOSTOLIC SEE, ON DECEMBER 14. ALTHOUGH CELLI, IN HIS
CURRENT POSITION AS CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OF VATICAN PROPERTIES
DOES NOT HAVE A DIRECT FOREIGN POLICY ROLE, HE IS OFTEN
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 VATICA 06539 191519Z
CALLED UPON BY THE FOREIGN MINISTRY TO ADVISE AND ASSIST ON
CHINA POLICY.


2. (C) CELLI SAID THAT THE VATICAN ACCEPTS THAT THERE WILL BE
NO IMPROVEMENT IN CHINA/VATICAN RELATIONS UNTIL AT LEAST THE
COMMUNIST PARTY CONGRESS IN MARCH, 2002. THE CURRENT
DIRECTOR OF THE RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS BUREAU IN BEIJING IS AN
"OLD MAOIST". ACCORDING TO CELLI, THE POWER OF THE RELIGIOUS
AFFAIRS BUREAU IS A MAJOR REASON THAT BEIJING REFUSES TO
BEGIN DISCUSSIONS ON NORMALIZATION OF RELATIONS. CELLI
EXPLAINED THAT THE BUREAU IS A MAJOR BUREAUCRACY WHICH IS
FIGHTING HARD TO PROTECT ITS POWER, PERKS, AND PERSONNEL. THE
HEAD OF THE PATRIOTIC CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE BISHOP OF BEIJING,
IS COMPLACENT WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION AND HE TOO DEPENDS
ON THE BUREAU FOR HIS POWER AND POSITION.


3. (C) AMBASSADOR ASKED IF THE POPE'S RECENT OVERTURE TO
BEIJING HAS HAD ANY EFFECT. CELLI REPLIED THAT THE VATICAN
IS NOW ACCEPTING THE FACT THAT IT HAS NOT. HE WENT ON TO SAY
THAT CHINA IS A "BIRD CAGE" AND THAT THE VATICAN'S GOAL IS
NOT TO BREAK DOWN THE "CAGE" BUT TO WIDEN IT. THE VATICAN
DOES NOT EXPECT FULL FREEDOM OF RELIGION IN CHINA ANY TIME IN
THE NEAR FUTURE, AND IS THEREFORE WILLING TO ACCEPT A
"DECENT" LEVEL. THE AMBASSADOR INQUIRED IF VATICAN RELATIONS
WITH TAIWAN IS AN OBSTACLE TO NORMALIZATION. CELLI SAID THAT
BEIJING KNOWS "PERFECTLY WELL" THAT TAIWAN IS NOT AN ISSUE.
ACCORDING TO CELLI, BEJING USES THE TAIWAN ISSUE AS AN EXCUSE
TO PREVENT DISCUSSION ON THE REAL ISSUE-- THE RIGHT OF THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH TO NAME ITS OWN BISHOPS.


4. (C) CELLI SAID THAT THE VATICAN KNOWS PRESIDENT BUSH MADE
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 VATICA 06539 191519Z
AN INTERVENTION ON ITS BEHALF IN SHANGHAI, AND THAT IT IS
VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. THIS TYPE OF HELP IS NEEDED AS THE
CATHOLIC COMMUNITY IN CHINA IS SUFFERING. CELLI POINTED TO
THE FACT THAT WITHIN FIVE OR SIX YEARS, THE MAJORITY OF THE
ELDERLY BISHOPS WILL PROBABLY DIE. AS THERE WAS A LONG
PERIOD IN WHICH THERE WERE NO ORDINATIONS OF PRIESTS AND
BISHOPS, THESE DYING BISHOPS WILL BE REPLACED BY VERY YOUNG,
INEXPERIENCED CHURCHMEN. THUS, THE VATICAN'S GOAL IS TO
NORMALIZE ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH BEIJING BEFORE THIS OCCURS.
THIS WOULD ALLOW THE VATICAN TO GUIDE THE TRANSITION.


5. (C) AMBASSADOR ASKED CELLI FOR HIS VIEWS ON VIETNAM.
CELLI SAID THAT HE IS NO LONGER INVOLVED ON THE VIETNAM
ISSUE. THAT SAID, HE BELIEVED THAT THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY
WAS SOMEWHAT IMPROVED THAN WHEN HE WAS LAST THERE FIVE YEARS
AGO. AT THAT TIME, HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO VISIT ANY CATHOLIC
CHURCHES IN HANOI.


6. (C) COMMENT: THE VATICAN IS RESIGNED TO THE FACT THAT THE
POPE'S OVERTURE IN OCTOBER FELL ON DEAF EARS. IT IS NOW
WAITING UNTIL AFTER MARCH TO RESUME ITS DIPLOMATIC PUSH. IT
IS LIKELY FOR THE VATICAN TO MAKE SOME CONCESSIONS TO BEIJING
TO REESTABLISH ITSELF BEFORE THE END OF THIS DECADE.
NICHOLSON//////////
SEMBLER

CONFIDENTIAL

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2001VATICA06539 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL